ATC Guys/Gals...Question about Air Force 1

[minitour]

Hey all you ATC folks...first thanks for all the help y'all are there for even when I'm pissin ya off...

secondly...the thread about 250kts below 10,000' has made me wonder...

I'm sure Air Force One gets its own "rules" but is this one of them...do they get to go whatever speed they want? I know it's trivial, but I'm kinda curious...

also for you ATC guys that have "worked" Air Force One...any cool stories

Thanks folks
-mini

P.S. If I shouldn't be asking this......oh well...I can't think of why I shouldn't ask about the Prez' 747...but if there's a reason...lemme know that too...thanks again!

 

[rumpletumbler]

I believe many 747's get 280kts right off the deck in the climb due to their weight. There was an article about Air Force One in Flying magazine many years ago and I think they said they didn't get moved to the head of the line because they were who they were. Might be different now.

 

[satpak77]

in a recent release about AF 1, (book), maybe a year ago it came out, the Presidential Pilot said that when all flights were grounded, just after the 9/11 attack, AF 1 took off and he told ATC that "uh, we are basically just going to be flying around, thanks"

they didnt tell anyone, ATC included, of their intentions

 

[rumpletumbler]

they didnt tell anyone, ATC included, of their intentions

Of course that would hardly be considered normal day to day operations.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

We deal with military aircraft rarely, but from my understanding....and stress, my understanding the military follows there own rules and regulations. I havent dealt with any of the really fast movers but have worked the U2 and the usual kingair or C130. Basically the way I understand it is that the FAR's don't apply to military. I don't know if they have a 250kt rule but I doubt it. As for AF1....the airspace is his and no one is allowed near it so 250kts would be worthless, whos he gonna run into?

 

[furloughfodder]

The FARs DO apply to the military.

That being said, for operational purposes ATC is required to waive the 250kt rule if needed. You only need to advise ATC "Unable 250kts for operational purposes".

We usually climb out well over 280kts when heavy.

 

[DaveJ]

Reserved Transponder Bit

Don't know about mode S, but in the old mode A transponder pulse train, there was a bit reserved for Air Force 1 (that is, only the President's plane could set this bit). I suspect this was to make AF1 _highly_ visible on every ATC radar screen.

 

[rumpletumbler]

kinda like double dog ident errrrrrrr sumthin

 

[minitour]

Hey guys just wanna say thanks...really interesting stuff...thanks again for taking the time to answer a rather trivial question...

-mini

P.S. If anyone has any info on the article mentioned earlier about AF1 (like where I could read it) that'd be cool...for some reason I'm interested in Kerry's new ride

 

[Chocks]

Not to beat the 250 knots thing to death, but in the Navy we blew it off all the time. As a matter of fact, as a formation lead our min speed in clean configuration was 300 knots so wing would have some g available. We would routinely come into the break at 300 -350 knots. Nobody even batted an eye - both at home base and at airports all over the place. I never once made, or heard a "unable to maintain 250 knots for operational purposes" radio call.

I've never heard of anybody getting violated for being, say 260 knots at 9500 feet..............

 

[furloughfodder]

I never once made, or heard a "unable to maintain 250 knots for operational purposes" radio call.

Then you have never flown the B747...

 

[Vector4fun]

We would routinely come into the break at 300 -350 knots. Nobody even batted an eye .....

I once saw two Marine F-4's break with an ARTS groundspeed of 610 kts...

Golfers next door were diving into the bunkers...

 

[garf12]

I was taking off from PWG a few weeks ago, when I contacted approach for flight following I heard AF1 checking in on 10 mile final for an airport 8 miles to the east. That was pretty cool. I knew bush was comming into town and had clearance to takeoff, I was surprised the let me with him landing that close.

 

[Jim]

FARs kind of apply to the military. Military pilots must follow them unless there is an operational reason to break them.

If the FAA violates a military aircraft/pilot it goes to the service and follows the chain of command downwards. If a commander decides the pilot was justified in his actions, the service eats the violation. If the commander feels the pilot was not justified, the pilot gets the violation (and the FAA his name).

 

[minitour]

FARs kind of apply to the military. Military pilots must follow them unless there is an operational reason to break them.

If the FAA violates a military aircraft/pilot it goes to the service and follows the chain of command downwards. If a commander decides the pilot was justified in his actions, the service eats the violation. If the commander feels the pilot was not justified, the pilot gets the violation (and the FAA his name).

so in this case is the commander (AF1) Gee Dub?

How would ya like to make that call...
ATC: "Hey George, your pilot was a 'lil too close to a 152 the other day so we're bustin ya, kay? Great, thanks, later Gee."

G.W. "That regulation hates freedom"

 

[dtfl]

FARs

FARs TOTALLY apply to the military. The reason you see military aircraft flying in excess of 250 below 10,000 is because they are either in a MOA on a training mission and have a waiver and/or that higher speed is required by the flight manual - to maintain safe flight and is waived by the FAA. T38s fly at 300 KIAS, for example, because they HAVE to.