Astar

[fob727]

Mach, the airlines you've mentioned (EAL, PAA, ATA, MDW, and Emery) are carriers that filed bankruptcy and ceased operations altogether. It's hard for former employees to argue for "Mo' money!" when a company has simply run out of it.

DHL/Astar hasn't run out of money, filed bankruptcy, nor are they planning to cease operations. By this time next year, the CVG hub will be almost as full of "big yellow airplanes" as it ever was. Most of them will be 767's flown by non-Astar crews, however.Astar didn't get screwed, they got punked. Big difference. Both get shafted, but one comes away from the encounter with his honor and integrity intact, the other with a cigarette. Ask somebody who's "done time"I respectfully disagree. I hope the example set by Astar will NEVER be repeated. In an employee group covered by a CBA, a furlough should be invoked only when there's a general downturn in business, and never because it's cheaper or simply more expeditious to outsource jobs. Tossing somebody cab fare home after you've just beaten and raped them is NOT an act of kindness.

I don't think DHL/Astar "raised the bar" on anything. I think they showed the world how to break a union, cheaply, and legally. But that's just my opinion. Check back in about 3 years and we'll see how everybody feels then.

Jeez, was that Grandpa passing gas at the dinner table again?

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Jeez, was that Grandpa passing gas at the dinner table again?

Yup. Still stinks.

Pathetic.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Even still, cab fare and sent home with full pay for a year. Still sounds better than ABX got. Just my opinion.

It's better than nothing. It gives guys about a year to get their financial affairs in order, which is more than ATA got. As I've said before, the full imact of this won't be felt for several years, at which time there will be some very, very bitter former Astar people out there.

Still sucks, but the masterminds of DHL has found a way to drive away the business. It isn't just being farmed out. Its gone!

To quote Ernest Gann - "Gone from where? Gone from our sight, that is all"

Most of DHL's business is still out there, and still flying. It's just flying on other carriers, mostly FedEx and UPS, that is all. If outsourcing (and furloughing) had not been an option for DHL, that business would have had no reason to leave, and DHL would have been left with some very strong incentives to re-fleet and grow domestically. I suspect that at some point, DHL would have asked for relief, and some Astar/ABX guys would have been on the street. But at least they would have remained on the property, and there would have been jobs to come back to.

Dude, give it up. This group saved your job twice.

Twice? According to R&W, it was "3 or 4 times" (or was it "5 or 6 times?" I forget) I'm only aware of once, and that was almost 10 years ago when we were still at the old/old hub. I guess it's like they say in the newspaper business, "When the legend makes for a better story than the facts, print the legend!"

It really doesn't matter whether it was once or a hundred times. Enforcing the CBA and making sure that company policy is fairly and evenly applied to it's members is what unions are paid to do. At least, that's what they're supposed to do. When they become corrupted by leadership that decides to run them like a "secret society" or "old boys club" under which only certain members jobs are protected, it's pretty much over for them as far as their credibilty or utility are concerned.

How much has ALPA spent from the general fund in the last year trying to save your job? Why is it OK for FedEx pilots (and 50,000 other ALPA members) to have to pay for your screw-up (in ratifying a flawed contract) and nobody else's?

The nail in your resume was pounded in by yourself when you totally screwed your "last chance, do or die" check ride with the fed on board.

Where do you come up with this "totally screwed" business? Were you there?

Just for the record, (and as a matter of public record, if you care to make the inquiries) the Fed isn't the one who downed the ride, it was the company. The Feds, at least, have to apply a published and fairly consistent set of standards to a check ride. Not so a company check airman, however. They can apply whatever standards they want, because it's them administering the check ride, not the FAA. They don't even have to be consistent. Remember it's them deciding whether or not you fly to their standards, not the FAA deciding whether or not you fly to FAA standards. The company decides who will be check airmen, and who will give a particular check ride. They'll always find some flunky to do their dirty work. Always.

If you really trust the company's judgement in these matters, then why, after it happened, was the training section of the CBA re-written to include the formation of a Training Review Board? To protect YOUR sorry A$$ from the same kind of BS they did to him, that's why.

Jeez, was that Grandpa passing gas at the dinner table again?

Hey dude, no taps-back. At least come up with your own similes.

 

[fob727]

It's better than nothing. It gives guys about a year to get their financial affairs in order, which is more than ATA got. As I've said before, the full imact of this won't be felt for several years, at which time there will be some very, very bitter former Astar people out there.To quote Ernest Gann - "Gone from where? Gone from our sight, that is all"

Most of DHL's business is still out there, and still flying. It's just flying on other carriers, mostly FedEx and UPS, that is all. If outsourcing (and furloughing) had not been an option for DHL, that business would have had no reason to leave, and DHL would have been left with some very strong incentives to re-fleet and grow domestically. I suspect that at some point, DHL would have asked for relief, and some Astar/ABX guys would have been on the street. But at least they would have remained on the property, and there would have been jobs to come back to. Twice? According to R&W, it was "3 or 4 times" (or was it "5 or 6 times?" I forget) I'm only aware of once, and that was almost 10 years ago when we were still at the old/old hub. I guess it's like they say in the newspaper business, "When the legend makes for a better story than the facts, print the legend!"

It really doesn't matter whether it was once or a hundred times. Enforcing the CBA and making sure that company policy is fairly and evenly applied to it's members is what unions are paid to do. At least, that's what they're supposed to do. When they become corrupted by leadership that decides to run them like a "secret society" or "old boys club" under which only certain members jobs are protected, it's pretty much over for them as far as their credibilty or utility are concerned.

How much has ALPA spent from the general fund in the last year trying to save your job? Why is it OK for FedEx pilots (and 50,000 other ALPA members) to have to pay for your screw-up (in ratifying a flawed contract) and nobody else's? Where do you come up with this "totally screwed" business? Were you there?

Just for the record, (and as a matter of public record, if you care to make the inquiries) the Fed isn't the one who downed the ride, it was the company. The Feds, at least, have to apply a published and fairly consistent set of standards to a check ride. Not so a company check airman, however. They can apply whatever standards they want, because it's them administering the check ride, not the FAA. They don't even have to be consistent. Remember it's them deciding whether or not you fly to their standards, not the FAA deciding whether or not you fly to FAA standards. The company decides who will be check airmen, and who will give a particular check ride. They'll always find some flunky to do their dirty work. Always.

If you really trust the company's judgement in these matters, then why, after it happened, was the training section of the CBA re-written to include the formation of a Training Review Board? To protect YOUR sorry A$$ from the same kind of BS they did to him, that's why. Hey dude, no taps-back. At least come up with your own similes.

Same tired Sh#t. See ya Dan, I mean Jim

 

[eight8kcabpilot]

Jim,
The FAA (Walt) failed you on your last chance, in the airplane - not the company check airman.