ASA PBS Question

[Flooder305]

I've been told from an ASA captain that the ASA MEC has some control regarding the PBS inputs from the company each month, can anyone detail what exactly the pilots have control over with regard to your PBS?

 

[CX880]

Who cares

 

[ace6453]

That is true. They have to come to an agreement on the awards before they are published. If they can't, they do some coin flip garbage to see who's award gets posted. It's more complex than that, but that's basically how it works

 

[Abernathy]

This happens every month and is why our awards are delayed every month. The thing is, though, even when ALPA throws a fit (which is really all just a show), the trips are just as crappy had they not said anything at all.

 

[higney85]

As a 9E PBS guy I can say the key is control to not only the solver but the pairing generator. It's a computer system.. Junk in, Junk out. If you don't have a good mix of trips (and productive trips overall) the preferences pilots put in have minimal weight. In talking with ASA reps as this was being discussed that was the biggest piece. If your PBS committee has the ability to work on pairings, lines improve tremendously.

 

[fo.mafia.4 life]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is it works like this. ALPA has access to the pairing generating software, and gets to create different sets of pairings independent from the company. Prior to the bid opening the company can compare ALPA's pairings to their own and see which one would work out best, then that set of pairings gets used for the bid cycle. After bidding closes, ALPA again gets to use the company's commodore 64 to run solutions to be compared against the company's solutions. (There are apparently lots of variables in the award logic that can be changed to affect which trips are assigned first from ones preferences and thus the outcome of the overall solution) The bid solutions are then compared to see which one is best. If for whatever reason the company and ALPA disagree on the definition of "best solution" then the whole coin flip BS takes over.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is it works like this. ALPA has access to the pairing generating software, and gets to create different sets of pairings independent from the company. Prior to the bid opening the company can compare ALPA's pairings to their own and see which one would work out best, then that set of pairings gets used for the bid cycle. After bidding closes, ALPA again gets to use the company's commodore 64 to run solutions to be compared against the company's solutions. (There are apparently lots of variables in the award logic that can be changed to affect which trips are assigned first from ones preferences and thus the outcome of the overall solution) The bid solutions are then compared to see which one is best. If for whatever reason the company and ALPA disagree on the definition of "best solution" then the whole coin flip BS takes over.

Essentially, thats true. For the past several months the company has elected to use the ALPA pairing solution.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

(There are apparently lots of variables in the award logic that can be changed to affect which trips are assigned first from ones preferences and thus the outcome of the overall solution)

DING DING DING. If you can hold it, you will get it, right? WRONG. It depends on which "solution" the company chooses to make final. This voodoo system is garbage. I hear guys all the time- " why did it give me that?!!", "why did it throw this two-day on the end of my four-day?!!" "WTF, O."

There is no control, only the illusion..

 

[fo.mafia.4 life]

DING DING DING. If you can hold it, you will get it, right? WRONG. It depends on which "solution" the company chooses to make final. This voodoo system is garbage. I hear guys all the time- " why did it give me that?!!", "why did it throw this two-day on the end of my four-day?!!" "WTF, O."

There is no control, only the illusion..

Not exactly correct. Notice I said "which trips are assigned first from ones preferences" It can’t rearrange your preferences. When you bid and a preference has however many pairings that match the criteria (let’s say 12 pairing for this discussion), in the bidders eyes those trips may appear equal, but they are not. Subtle differences between things such as credit, block, certain days, duty times, or any other number of details may not be important to a bidder within a specific preference, but how does the computer pick which one of those 12 pairings to assign to you? This is where the "tweaking" comes in. It allows the program to assign to you the pairing, FROM YOUR PREFERENCES, which is most beneficial to the desired solution.

Btw, just to be clear. I love PBS and have absolutely no interest in returning to line bidding. Top 25% CRJ200 FO ATL. To preempt all the Expressjet guys that want to tell me all about your line bidding. I know I’ve read all about it. I know about the bad day worse day trades and line improvement windows and such and sorry, I’m not interested. Just wait and see what cleaver and diabolical inventions Surejet’s management will come up with to completely nullify any advantages you may have.

 

[OCP]

I'm bottom 25% CA ATL and have gotten what I've bid for every month so far. I have training and vacation the last 4 days of next month. I know I can't hold weekends off so bid my training over the 3rd weekend. I work two 4 days next month, last day flying is the 15th. Training starts the 19th-22nd, then the rest of the month off.
So what is all this talk about not having time around training dates? Line bidding... Not a chance.

 

[russtgol]

ASAholes!!!!

 

[Flyguy1226]

ASAholes!!!!

You must spent all day on FI to call ASA guy A-Holes on every thread. You're pathetic!

 

[russtgol]

You must spent all day on FI to call ASA guy A-Holes on every thread. You're pathetic!

A-hole

 

[Freebrd]

company's commodore 64 .

I thought ASA upgraded and bought some TRS80s on eBay

 

[Max Q]

A-hole

What a dork.

 

[Jetpig]

I'm bottom 25% CA ATL and have gotten what I've bid for every month so far. I have training and vacation the last 4 days of next month. I know I can't hold weekends off so bid my training over the 3rd weekend. I work two 4 days next month, last day flying is the 15th. Training starts the 19th-22nd, then the rest of the month off.
So what is all this talk about not having time around training dates? Line bidding... Not a chance.

If you didn't have vacation you would have not gotten a line. The vacation credit and the vacation low saved you.