ASA or FLIGHT OPTIONS

[msr]

If you had to pick one to work for which one and why???? Pro's and cons from the experts much appreciated!! Thanks!!!!

 

[sleepy]

Is the starting pay at Flightoptions more than $19.00 per hour? Is the upgrade time at Flightoptions less than 7 years? If you answered yes to either question, then go to Flightoptions.

 

[shamrock]

Do you want airline or fractional? This seems to be a choice between lifestyle as much as companies.

Before I got a flying job I dealt with NetJets working the ramp at Signature Flight Support and have some friends there as well. With this experience and a little knowledge of myself I know that the fractional/charter side is not my thing. My personality (cranky, prone to incessant bitching no matter how well things are going) is much more suited to the airlines.


And as Sleepy said, starting pay is $19 an hour at ASA with a loooong upgrade.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

My personality (cranky, prone to incessant bitching no matter how well things are going) is much more suited to the airlines.

So that's you I hear whining on the OPS frequency in ATL. I just assumed it was a Comair pilot.

 

[msr]

Thanks

 

[Heavy Set]

Get jet time either way...

Mark,

If Flight Options offers you King Air to start then I would pick ASA. You should be getting jet time either way because the upgrades at both will take a long time - I think Flight Options upgrade time is 4-5 years. Although the 8/7 schedule at Flight Options sounds pretty good - you could work at Home Depot on your week off...

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Looooooong upgrades at ASA likely to completely stagnate once all new aircraft orders are cancelled.



Be an F/O for at least 10 years.



However, some friends fly for the frax, and money is the only criteria for being a customer, so expect to have to load bags and clean up vomit after lugging a planeload of loud, drunk, drugged, classless, rich hip-hoppers. Or Martha Stewart. For real.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ASA is like a night in Vegas. It all depends on luck ( or the Delta MEC ). If Connection is offered out as some sort of a protected haven for DIP financing and 70 seat scope is relaxed ( which Delta desperately needs ) then ASA would be a pretty good place to be.

However anything good that might happen to ASA is subject to being negotiated away by the Delta MEC, or they may follow the Northwest and US Air lead and put any growth airplanes on another certificate at rates that undercut the ASA pilots.

The problem is that the ASA pilots have absolutely no say in these negotiations that control our wages and working conditions. ALPA has completely locked us out, as ALPA has done at every Regional.

I would recommend the fractional if you need security and if you want to gamble, then welcome aboard ASA.

 

[Dep676]

The set schedule is nice. No reserve or anything like that. Most likely would not get King Air. They just sold another one of those. So your chances are probably for the BJ or now known as the 400XP. We all know it's still a BJ and will always a BJ. Starting pay in 34k a year plus per-diem, which is 40.80/day. I would say upgrade is at least 4 to 5 years unless the airlines start hiring. Second year pay is 36K.


Hope this helps.

 

[Heavy Set]

What is your end goal? Flying 121?

My question is can you still be set-up for jobs with SWA, JetBlue and AirTran in the distant future if you go to Flight Options and your end goal is 121? Not sure what your end goal is but I would suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that CRJ time might be preferred over Beechjet/Hawker time. Although PIC time is probably the most important factor and you might get that faster at Flight Options.

Are many Flight Options guys being picked up by SWA, JetBlue and AirTran? Would CRJ time be more advantageous IF you wanted to go to one of these airlines?

 

[Dep676]

My question is can you still be set-up for jobs with SWA, JetBlue and AirTran in the distant future if you go to Flight Options and your end goal is 121? Not sure what your end goal is but I would suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that CRJ time might be preferred over Beechjet/Hawker time. Although PIC time is probably the most important factor and you might get that faster at Flight Options.

Are many Flight Options guys being picked up by SWA, JetBlue and AirTran? Would CRJ time be more advantageous IF you wanted to go to one of these airlines?

I heard and can not comfirm. SW called on 35 of our guys for background checks. Yes there have been some of our guys that have been hired at SW from Options. I don't believe it says anywhere on SW or JB that you need 121 time. I know Airtran says that on their website.

 

[sweptback]

The set schedule is nice. No reserve or anything like that. Most likely would not get King Air. They just sold another one of those. So your chances are probably for the BJ or now known as the 400XP. We all know it's still a BJ and will always a BJ. Starting pay in 34k a year plus per-diem, which is 40.80/day. I would say upgrade is at least 4 to 5 years unless the airlines start hiring. Second year pay is 36K.

I guess it just boils down to if you can handle the first year pay at ASA. From the sounds of it, second year pay at both places is fairly similar. ASA is a little less (33.65/hr is the pay rate), but it would be within a few thousand. The next contract (which hopefully will be done by the time you end up on second year pay) should improve that, either by a pay rate increase or some combination of trip/duty rigs.

I wouldn't choose either airline/fractional due to upgrade times. That can and will change. There's a lot of captains at ASA bailing to Southwest or Air Tran. ASA is hiring fast enough that if you get in the next couple of classes you'll have enough people under you to have a decent schedule in a few months out of training. If you're married to the 7 days off, though, go to Options. There's nothing like that here.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Personally, I would rather go with ASA. This is coming from someone who is single and able to live on their salary though. I've talked to Flight Options pilots on more than one occassion. They rarely know what their next leg is going to be until they land and make a phone call, they get calls frequently at 3:30 and 4:00 in the morning from ops to give schedule changes, they have to clean up cabins, load luggage, stock the plane, and put up with quite a few rich arrogant people who consider you to be nothing more than their limo driver. Fractionals are basically just large corporate flight departments that operate like an airline. So, you get all of the extra work involved with corporate flying combined with the politics and corporate BS that goes along with working for a large company that has many pilots. Again, if you don't mind the stuff mentioned above, and you just want a quick upgrade...Flight Options may be okay. It really all boils down to what suits you better.

 

[450]

Talk to pilots that have done both. 99% will tell you they enjoy the frax business over the regionals.

 

[sleepy]

What you really need to do is verify how long you will have to be on reserve at ASA. It really is just a matter of luck as to the type of schedule you will have and the time to upgrade there. If I had been hire at ASA two months earlier, I would have been a Captain the whole time I was there. People hired a few months after me spent years on reserve.

Reserve at ASA = NO QOL! I mean never, ever. You will be a whipping-boy. You will live so that you can drive to the airport, wait 15 minutes for the bus, ride the bus for 10 minutes, then duty-in within 2 hours of being called by crew scheduling.

Now I have never worked at a fractional, but I talk to some of them from time to time in FBO's. The pay and benefits seem to be better at the fractionals than what you will get at ASA. Of course ASA offers non-rev travel benefits (if you can find a flight that isn't over-sold).

 

[SEFlyer]

I always love the posts where guys ask whether one company or another. This questions will be different for every pilot that is asked, and even some may change their mind every time that you ask them. Only you can make this decision. Research each company (not by listening to the banter of disgruntled employees on this board) -- trust me I'm one of 'em. But research facts and make a decision based on that. You have to live with the decision, we don't.

 

[VABB]

If you had to pick one to work for which one and why???? Pro's and cons from the experts much appreciated!! Thanks!!!!

It depends. Would you rather say "I'd like fries with that" or "would you like fries with that?".

 

[WrknStff]

Don't forget to factor in commuting into the equations. I'm not sure what the current domiciles for ASA are or if I'd want to live there, but unless you want to move to those couple of cities you are going to be commuting to and from work you HAVE to figure in commuting to your answer. When I was still at a 121 regional I had to commute for about 3 years and that totally SUCKED after 9/11 (not that it was didn't suck before then). Now I'm at flops and can choose to fly out of maybe 90% of the cities in the country with airline service (and NO that is not changing with new hires, nasty rumor started by wanna be teamsters as far as I can tell) and there is absolutely no stress about getting to work. Sure as heck beat the stress and frustration of trying to jumpseat to work on your own supposed time off.

 

[73belair]

ASA is hiring fast enough that if you get in the next couple of classes you'll have enough people under you to have a decent schedule in a few months out of training. If you're married to the 7 days off, though, go to Options. There's nothing like that here.

huh? I was hired 2 years ago and am looking to be #350 or so in ATL. They "say" they are going to grow the lines, but I'm betting its back to reserve. No chance I'm betting on ASA getting those 25 airplanes until they are sitting on the ramp. Delta holds ALL the cards at ASA. And more than once in my short 2 years have I been screwed by Delta deciding to do something.

 

[sweptback]

huh? I was hired 2 years ago and am looking to be #350 or so in ATL. They "say" they are going to grow the lines, but I'm betting its back to reserve. No chance I'm betting on ASA getting those 25 airplanes until they are sitting on the ramp. Delta holds ALL the cards at ASA. And more than once in my short 2 years have I been screwed by Delta deciding to do something.

The point I was trying to make is that they continue to hire 20/month with no end in sight, even during all this nightmare that is the closing of DFW. All those newhires are going to ATL, and I'd say probably 90% of the newhires will be going on the 50. Don't you think that if it was to be that bad they would take a few months off until everything catches up? If they knew that they didn't have enough flying and lines to cover everybody in ATL, why hire guys to sit reserve and never fly, yet collect guarantee?

I'm not a koolaid drinker (far from it actually), but I just don't see by looking at the numbers how after the shakeout is complete there's going to be a ton of people on reserve. Say what you will about our management, but I don't see how they could possibly hire 300 people, just to furlough them after the 25 jets mysteriously disappear. At $20k a pop or whatever it costs the company to train a newhire pilot, that's a lot of money to just throw away. If the company had plans to furlough people, they would have done it the day they announced the DFW closing. The fact that they said that no furloughs would take place, and continued to hire like mad says a lot to me. But then again, what do I know, I have no ties to recruiting or training or anybody like that.

They're already growing ATL... there's what, 8 people on reserve there now? People hired just six months ago are holding 4-day lines. Yet, DFW is in a state of flux with tons on reserve. Yes, I know things are going to get ugly come Jan 31, but once it settles down it should be alright, I hope. It sucked for me to go from reserve to holding a line, to reserve again, but when I look at the number of people below me in ATL, I just don't see how I could be anywhere close to reserve. Especially since the same number of airplanes will be flying, just in different locations.

I know ASA was stagnant as all getout from late 2002 to now. I just don't see how that can continue.