ASA Mismanagement Proposal. Ha, Ha

[flylowman]

Did anyone see the Proposal made by management? 50% Deadhead pay. 5 year terms. Big pay cut on the 700, and nothing on the ATR or 200. No premium pay. Thats just what I noticed. No language on Long Call Reserve. It just says there will be a long call. www.asacontract.com/pa/CompanyProposal.asp Copy Dat

 

[difete]

It sounds we have a better deal at SKW across the same pond.

 

[geardown]

I'm actually glad they brought their proposal to our attention on Flica. I spent some time looking at it and without a doubt I would not even wipe my @ss with that piece of trash. I knew they didn't want to give us much but that is an insult in every way. They can forget about an agreement with anything remotely resembling this proposal.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Old One!

Wasn't that the original proposal? If so, it has been significantly changed.

 

[crjskipper]

I think that package proprosal at the end agrees to 100% deadhead and some other language. Commuter clause is matched except for number, and long call seems fairly well complete except for exact hours. Not thrilled about pay but what did you expect. They havn't even talked it yet. 13 seems almost finished and thats huge.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

I'm willing to bet the mediator made the company post their proposal.

 

["GO AROUND"]

There are quite a few things that are acceptable, but a lot that is not.

Do they think we don't know what we want? I know for me it is not that proposal. There are too many things wrong with it.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE, OVERALL THAT IS A CONCESSIONARY PROPOSAL OF A CONTRACT AND THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE TO ME.

That is no where near an industry standard contract.

 

[rjcap]

I think that package proprosal at the end agrees to 100% deadhead and some other language. Commuter clause is matched except for number, and long call seems fairly well complete except for exact hours. Not thrilled about pay but what did you expect. They havn't even talked it yet. 13 seems almost finished and thats huge.

I can't make heads or tails of the package proposal #30. Anybody able to decipher this.

 

[Texx]

I'm willing to bet the arbitrator made the company post their proposal.

There is no arbitrator involved. He's a mediator.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

There is no arbitrator involved. He's a mediator.

Yeah that's what I meant. Too early in the morning.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Its a start!

I couldn't find anything about profit sharing. That in its self is adding 3-5 dollars an hour to the average Skywest Cpts pay. Would that be a completely different thing and not attached to this current proposal?? Also, most commuter clauses have 6 events per 12 rolling calender months. I am sure our CNC is still working this issue. There were allot of "matched" items. Does that mean the CNC has agreed with these sections?? Anyway, it at least a step in the right direction. We need to be a little more realistic about pay rates and our current environment although we shouldn't bend over either. You can disagree all you want, but unless we are competitive (did not say profitable) the industry WILL pass us up and we WILL go away.

 

[rjcap]

I couldn't find anything about profit sharing. That in its self is adding 3-5 dollars an hour to the average Skywest Cpts pay. Would that be a completely different thing and not attached to this current proposal?? Also, most commuter clauses have 6 events per 12 rolling calender months. I am sure our CNC is still working this issue. There were allot of "matched" items. Does that mean the CNC has agreed with these sections?? Anyway, it at least a step in the right direction. We need to be a little more realistic about pay rates and our current environment although we shouldn't bend over either. You can disagree all you want, but unless we are competitive (did not say profitable) the industry WILL pass us up and we WILL go away.

A little bit more realistic ??

We are on the 8th year of our current contract that was signed in 1998. The mgmt continues to abuse and disregard the current contract language. They do it because they can get away with it. Why don't you be more realistic !


Competitive??

How can we be compeitive when the mgmt won't tackle the big operational issues. All they can do is cut our pay and work rules while they get bonuses.


The easier you make it for these guys to cut your pay and benefits then the easier it is for them to ignore all the operational issues that cost the company tens of millions of dollars a year. Thats not good mgmt.

Tim, I really object to you softening your stance on this contract. Either I misunderstood your post or you are getting soft. Which is it ??

 

[HoserASA]

Anyway, it at least a step in the right direction. We need to be a little more realistic about pay rates and our current environment although we shouldn't bend over either. \quote]

Well, which is it Tim, do we 'bend' over or not? You'd make a good politician with wording like that! You'd better stay on active duty as this proposal ain't gonna hunt! Step in the right direction my arse!

Hoser
Scott Hall thinks LJ would be a great MEC Chair!
Just ask Joe Merchant!

 

[av8er2]

Time to really get the job search on the ball.

I looked over it real quick and it makes me want to quit.

Again they screw the reserves with only 10 days off.

I am willing to strike over this if this is all we get.

 

[chopper]

Time to get ready

Well, I don't post often but, this is certainly of interest to me.
I, like most of us at ASA, have done my job. Our CNC has negotiated in good faith. Mgmt has flat out insulted us throughout the process.
I don't know if it will come to a strike, but here is what I think.
The time to strike is when you are so fed up with mgmt, that you would choose to put the company out of business and loose your job before accepting their terms.
I need a paycheck, and most of us do. But now is the time to make sure you have a Backup Plan. Personally, it is to the point that I would rather sell cars, do landscaping, open a small business, do home repair, etc.
Guess what, there aren't a whole lot of flying jobs out there, but there are a ton of unemployed pilots. So don't count on flying.
I know many have screamed strike, strike, strike. We are not there yet, but it may very well be around the corner.
What I am saying, is take the possibility of a strike very seriously. Get your funds in order. Get a room mate if you have to. Eliminate any extraneous debt, if you can. Suggest, carefully of course, that your wife or husband may want to consider getting a job ( if they don't work already, I think most do).
Pick up a second job yourself. Many have other jobs or careers.
I'm fed up enough, that I would choose to do something else before accepting the insulting terms offered by BL & co.

 

[av8tor4239]

LOOK AT section 24 paragraph G.... FO Bypass pay is gone... there is nothing keeping the company from honoring our bid request.. like they do now anyway. I have had a 50 seat bid in for 1.5 years... F#%# BULLS$##

VOTE HELL NO TO THIS ONE

 

[goodto50meters]

Posting this stuff like management did is nothing but a last minute excersize in desperation. They know that their back is against the wall from SkyWest and ASA Pilots to get a deal. This is a classic attempt to shift the negotiations from the table to the press and court of public opinion.

Management is not getting their way in convincing the pilots to take concessions so they post all of this in the hopes that we all will go "wow" look how generous management is....we'll take it! Even though its not generous.

In other words, this is a good sign that management is reaching the end of their rope. Dont take the bait. Stay the course!

Nice try LaBrecque, Tutt, Hall, Hayes, Billable Heirs, Atkin, Johnlynn; but MY NEGOTIATION TEAM SPEAKS FOR ME at the table!

Looking forward to the strike ballot: YES! Keep the pressure on.

 

[Blucher]

Time to Man-Up

Chopper,

You summed it up beautifully. Everybody better get their houses in order (if you've been paying attention to our MEC you should have already done this)!
I hate the thought of leaving this job, but this is simply unacceptable and I'd prefer to shut it down then let it continue in it's current diseased state. BL and Co really screwed the pootch on this one (as we'd all assumed, but now know)! I'm thinking about starting a company that provides wheelchair service in ATL, who's in?

-Blucher:angryfire

 

[schoolio]

I don't know enough about the situation to make any remarks, but I do have a question...

Does Delta have any sort of influence in this situation? I mean, I know they are having their own problems with their pilots right now, but if ASA goes on strike, wouldn't that also cause Delta some severe pain, possibly leading to them shutting down?

Thanks for the info.

 

[goodto50meters]

I'm thinking about starting a company that provides wheelchair service in ATL, who's in?

-Blucher:angryfire

I'm in! Any restrictions on hot lesbians?

 

[Blucher]

Nope

I'm in! Any restrictions on hot lesbians?

Nope, no restrictions. Although I will not hire anyone without a strong work ethic, so if you're from ATL, there's a pretty good chance you will not make it past the interview. My only concern is once we shut down ASA and then Delta implodes we'll be a bit slow for a time, providing service primarily to Airtran. Of course, every airline under the sun will want a piece of ATL once all that happens, so it won't be long until we're rakin' in the dough!

-Blucher:beer:

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Did anyone see the Proposal made by management? 50% head pay. 5 year terms. Big pay cut on the 700, and nothing on the ATR or 200. No premium pay. Thats just what I noticed. No language on Long Call Reserve. It just says there will be a long call. www.asacontract.com/pa/CompanyProposal.asp Copy Dat

Your wrong flylowman. There was a package proposal that agreed to 100% DH pay, increased sick leave, and increased per diem. The pay section wasn't discussed in the most recent negotiations. We have to be realistic on 70 seat rates since Delta just agreed to fly the E190 for $95. Why is OK for the mainline pilots to "race to the bottom"?

The point is, progress is finally being made.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I couldn't make sense of the package proposal at the end. If all that is true then some progress is being made. There are still area's that need to be addressed. CDO and BSOTC flying, no rigs to make up for premium pay.

Did anyone else notice that a Relief Line holder will not get paid for cancelation pay! Read closely. There is a lot of stuff like that. It's gonna take me a week to read and reread for all those things.

 

[rjcap]

Your wrong flylowman. There was a package proposal that agreed to 100% DH pay, increased sick leave, and increased per diem. The pay section wasn't discussed in the most recent negotiations. We have to be realistic on 70 seat rates since Delta just agreed to fly the E190 for $95. Why is OK for the mainline pilots to "race to the bottom"?

The point is, progress is finally being made.

Progress ??

100 % deadhead. We already have that.

Increased sick leave. Great - another .25 hrs/month.

Per Diem increase. - That 5 cents/hr is really going to raise my tax bracket.

This is all trash, plain and simple.

Voice - are you one of those old goats who is just waiting it out till retirment ? Don't want anybody to rock the boat.

Why do you rationalize and excuse mediocrity in mgmt while they attempt to rob us of scheduling and pay impovements ?

I'm trying to understand why you have such low expectations for yourself and your fellow pilots. Why you are so willing to back down and let your group be sold down the river.

Why don't you try to take a stand for once in your life.

 

[outtahere]

I might have missed it but I didn't see anything in this with trip rigs or duty rigs, nor minimum day pay. All of these are no go items for me. How bout u?

 

[crjskipper]

><Did anyone else notice that a Relief Line holder will not get paid for cancelation pay!<>

As far as I can tell there is no such thing as 'relief' pilots anymore. Only line or reserve. Cancel pay has not changed.

chopper - quit. Leave, dont screw 6000 other people. What gives you the right to think since your unhappy we should all shut it down. I was about to scream until I saw that the Delta boys have proposed flying the 190 for less than our 700 rate. Puts things in a different light for me.

And why no profit sharing in here - word is our MEC refused to even discuss it. Thanks for the help boys!

 

[goodto50meters]

><And why no profit sharing in here - word is our MEC refused to even discuss it. Thanks for the help boys!

You need a fact check. Leme guess where you got the 'word'. Probably someone in management in a recurrent class.

You might want to ask Jerry Atkin about the profit sharing issue. ASA management didnt follow his instructions on bringing it to the table and Bryan was put on the spot. Bryans excuse to Jerry: "we got busy". So in a nut shell....THEY never brought it up, thank them.

You will have your opportunity, 'word' is Jerry will be in the Atlanta crew lounge in a few weeks.

 

[sweptback]

This proposal is terrible.

While it seems that progress has been made in some areas, the devil is in the details. A commuter clause is worthless if I can only invoke it twice. The swap system specifically excludes all holidays, and other days deemed important to the company. We get a long call reserve, but they can convert us to short call reserve practically at will. Ready reserve can be anywhere, even in a truck stop in Maconga. Integration still exists for all but the senior 1/3 of pilots.

Read the proposal, and pay special attention to the language that is not matched. That is the sticking point.

This is a concessionary proposal, plain and simple. I will have none of it.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

So if it says "match," does that mean we have agreed to it? I see that almost every section in Sick Leave has been "matched." I just don't understand the accrual or the usage. I figure the average American is sick twice a year. That would be two trips around an average (for ASA) of 20 hrs totalling 40 hrs for the year. At 2.75 or even 3.00 per month, we don't get enough to offset our being sick. And how about PTO?!?

Honestly, this cannot be tolerated.

 

[Bizjet]

We have to be realistic on 70 seat rates since Delta just agreed to fly the E190 for $95. Why is OK for the mainline pilots to "race to the bottom"?

The point is, progress is finally being made.

AVOR how many E190's has Delta got on order. None? Uh None????? So even if they have that rate it is a phantom rate since no E190's are on order. How about a rate for the Space Shuttle? No they don't have those on order either!