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ASA LEC Election - Voice from the past...

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FmrFreightDog

Py-lote
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Posts
1,238
I am posting this without permission from the author, but I do not think he would object. For those of you who were not here for Contract '98 and are inclined to vote for the "coalition", read on:

Fellow Pilots:

Although the vast majority of you weren’t here for the last contract negotiations, it is imperative that you have a feel for the process and how it will affect you. This isn’t the first time that we have been engaged in protracted negotiations with management or “parked by the NMB”. We are nearing the end game and I believe that we will reach an agreement or an impasse in the very near future. That being said, we simply can’t afford to roll over and play dead at this point. The pilot group and I might say a very determined pilot group provided the impetus for our ability to achieve an agreement that satisfied most, but not all of our objectives. It will be no different this time, and for us to reach an agreement that satiates the vast majority of our desires we must stay the course.

We must establish a line of demarcation with respect to our contract goals, and never retreat from this beachhead, because once we start down the path of concessions we will only see a continued erosion of our collective bargaining agreement. This pilot group must build upon the foundation laid by all of those who devoted their time and efforts to the principal that we leave this place better than we found it, and to do their part to this end. This is where you come in, as it will require each and every one of us pulling together to reach a settlement that provides the kind of stability and job security that we all desire.

We have an election for Local Executive Council 112 status representatives for the term starting March 1, 2007 and ending February 28, 2010. These elected individuals from our pilot group will be your voice in the decision making process that lies ahead for years to come, and they will be undoubtedly have to face many challenges over this time frame. We can’t allow ourselves to become shortsighted or apathetic at this critical juncture.

I have been silent for eight years regarding the matter that I’m about to discuss below, but I can’t in good conscience sit idly by while certain factions attempt to hijack our contract negotiations. It will be up to you to discern the facts and to carefully consider your vote. You have until December 11th to cast your ballot, and I urge to use this time wisely.

During the first week of February 1998, the MEC met in Herndon, Virginia to receive a briefing from Negotiating Chairman Nelson DeBardeleben and the rest of our committee. MEC Chairman Randy Poole, MEC Vice Chair Lynn Jackson, ATL Capt. Rep. Vic Fox, ATL FO Rep. Andy Stratton, DFW Capt. Rep. Greg Onsel, and DFW FO Rep. Michelle Lorch reviewed the contract proposal and determined that it met the objectives mandated by the MEC. The vote was unanimous! This tentative agreement was sent to the pilot group for ratification, and was then rejected by slightly over 91% of our pilots as woefully inadequate. I, along with Mike McElduff in Atlanta, and Danny Utley and Greg Shayman in Dallas were elected for the term starting March 1, 1998. We were then tasked with the mandate of renegotiating a wide range of items that weren’t found satisfactory in the first TA. There were approximately 12-13 separate issues that had to be resolved in order to meet our goals.

MEC Vice Chairman Lynn Jackson pushed very hard to get involved in these subsequent negotiations, and she wanted to include John Breiling at the table. At this point, we had no reason to question their motivations, and after further discussion we appointed Lynn, John, and Barney Rodger as our new contract negotiating team. On May 19th, the NMB met with Randy Poole, Lynn Jackson, Joe Anduze, and John Breiling to discuss the revised proposals that we wished to pursue. Magdalena Jacobsen, board member, and Larry Gibbons, our new mediator, expressed disappointment in our rejection of the TA and parked us while we reconsidered our position. It quickly became apparent that Lynn and John were cutting Barney out of the discussions as they moved toward their separate agenda. Time and time again, Lynn came to the MEC wanting to pair down the issues to 3 or 4 items, since she felt that we had to do this in order to get out of the “parking lot”.

Even our mediator had a settlement proposal that included 13 items, but our negotiators seemed to have ideas of their own. On June 2nd, Lynn outlined her thoughts on what steps were needed to get out of the NMB “parking lot”, and these issues had been whittled down to 9 items. Lynn suggested that we being willing to drop all but 4 of the items. Finally the straw that broke the camels’ back, Lynn and John having cut our 3rd team member out of the equation brought back a TA that included items that were never strike issues or directed by the MEC. The MEC, after what can only be described as very heated debate intended to send the negotiating team back to the table, but the TA was leaked to the pilot group by these individuals. On balance this TA provided enough improvements to the then current agreement that we passed the TA on for membership ratification. The “nifty fifty” as I like to call them still voted against this TA. John got his pay for training reimbursement, and the ATR pilots (Randy, Lynn, and John) enjoyed nice pay raises.

Our current contract fell short of what was achievable, and we are still playing catch up today. After the contract was ratified and signed, we the MEC unanimously recalled MEC Chairman Randy Poole and MEC Vice Chairman Lynn Jackson for what we felt was their deliberate and malicious disregard for the will of our pilot group. We didn’t approve of their behind the scenes meetings with ASA management, nor their behavior with said management. Although we had unanimously agreed to these positions as an MEC, at the time I was singled out for payback since I had “shot Santa Claus and killed the Easter Bunny”. Did I mention that, I hate politics! Shortly after we had reached this new agreement, several changes took place. Former MEC Negotiating Chairman Nelson DeBardeleben became base system Chief Pilot, former MEC Vice Chairman Lynn Jackson became ATL Chief Pilot, and MEC Grievance Chairman Randy Martin became Contract Administrator as management for some reason felt these were the best people for the jobs. Funny…

Joe Anduze was elected to MEC Chairman, but he only wanted to fill the position in the interim. Subsequently, I was elected to MEC Chairman (bad idea when some people want to hang you for that double homicide – Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny) only to provide continuity with administering the new contract. I resigned my LEC 112 Captain Representative position (bad idea number 2, now Ken Cooksey can try to vote me out) to provide some measure of balance. It seems that they just couldn’t vote me out, but they did succeed in making my life miserable. Ultimately, they became enough of a distraction that it made the business of running the union grind to a halt. I decided that in the interest of the pilot that I would resign, and I forced Capt. Rep. Ken Cooksey and MEC Sec.-Treas. Shea Medlin to resign as well. This ended the blood bath, but not the ill will.

These are not the individuals that you should entrust with your futures. Let your voice be heard, and your patience and determination will be rewarded. I’m proud of the work that I have done for this pilot group, and I have always endeavored to do my best to represent this pilot group never for personal gain, but to build improvements one brick at a time.

Fraternally,
Frank

P.S. As soon as I can scan in some documents, I’ll be posting them here for you to read for yourself.
 
Well, who would have thunk it? They do have ALPA experience and it looks like the Coalition of 4, really is the Jackson 5!

Geesh, when will we ever learn, history repeats itself!
 
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Looks to me that the union has never been able to get along with each other. Why did the majority of the pilot group vote the current contract in if it did not contain the achievable results. Is it possible that the pilot's goals were not as demanding as some of the union leader's goals? It seems very probable that the above scenario may be repeating itself.
 
Imagine that, Cooksey and Breiling turn coats who when able use the power entrusted to them by fellow pilots to pursue their own personal agenda.
 
Why did the majority of the pilot group vote the current contract in if it did not contain the achievable results. Is it possible that the pilot's goals were not as demanding as some of the union leader's goals? It seems very probable that the above scenario may be repeating itself.

The goals of the pilots are the same as the goals of the MEC. Our pilots tell the MEC what to do. The current contract was probably voted in because it was an improvement over the first rag that got voted down and the pilot group was ready to be done with it. It certainly didn't pass by an overwhelming margin.
 
I don't look for the next contract to pass by an overwhelming margin either. In my humble opinion I forsee this thing passing by a close margin- much like our previous contract and the one from Fedex. (it may have been UPS- only passed by 51% of the pilot group)
 
Imagine that, Cooksey and Breiling turn coats who when able use the power entrusted to them by fellow pilots to pursue their own personal agenda.

Yep, a real couple of winners there for sure, along with LJ!

VOTED IN FAVOR!
 
Yep, a real couple of winners there for sure, along with LJ!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I wish you ASA guys all the best. Your work is cut out for you. You have a very hard working and dedicated MEC, with one notable exception, who need your unity and support.
 
Yep, a real couple of winners there for sure, along with LJ!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

Why can't you guys just get him out of office? He's obviously on his own agenda, and could care less about what anyone else thinks about him! I would think with the majors turning things around and 2007 looking more like the year for hiring around the airlines, he would change his tune. Oh well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!
737
 
Looks to me that the union has never been able to get along with each other. Why did the majority of the pilot group vote the current contract in if it did not contain the achievable results. Is it possible that the pilot's goals were not as demanding as some of the union leader's goals? It seems very probable that the above scenario may be repeating itself.

That's exactly what is happening. If I remember correctly, that contract passed by about 85%. You are now hearing from some of the 15% ers.
 
I don't look for the next contract to pass by an overwhelming margin either. In my humble opinion I forsee this thing passing by a close margin- much like our previous contract and the one from Fedex. (it may have been UPS- only passed by 51% of the pilot group)

Actually I believe our current contract passed by about 85%.
 
Why can't you guys just get him out of office? He's obviously on his own agenda, and could care less about what anyone else thinks about him!

He would probably like to be recalled because he would then become a martyr for his cause. "Look what big bad ALPA did! I told you I was right!"
 
Why can't you guys just get him out of office? He's obviously on his own agenda, and could care less about what anyone else thinks about him! I would think with the majors turning things around and 2007 looking more like the year for hiring around the airlines, he would change his tune. Oh well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!
737

We won't recall him because that's what he wants.

JB got kicked out of the RJDC continum by Dan Ford for being too radical and too vocal. Now he has it in his head that he can work his way back in by getting himself recalled so that he can have dirt on ALPA by saying we recalled him only because of his RJDC ties.

So knowing that he wants to become a martyr, our pilots have chosen to just ignore him and let him fade away.
 
Why can't you guys just get him out of office? He's obviously on his own agenda, and could care less about what anyone else thinks about him! I would think with the majors turning things around and 2007 looking more like the year for hiring around the airlines, he would change his tune. Oh well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!
737
wow! words of wisdom from the great one....your lifes mantra???

The whole John Breiling thing should be a mute point. The only people who even know who he is and even consider anything he says are the same few immature posters on here.

So he walked out on his "job". Have the LEC meetings gone on without him and the notes he alledgedly has? yes. Has alpa ASA 112 shut down without him? No. It should be history and the people leading alpa 112 should worry about the here and now.

The really disturbing thing to me is all the people in the MEC that say they will quit and walk away if the "coalition" wins the election. I thought you guys were in this for the pilot group and not yourselves....seems to me that if you quit because you don't get your way or your candidate didn't win, that makes you no better than John.


So, are you guys in this for the whole pilot group or not?
 
wow! words of wisdom from the great one....your lifes mantra???

The whole John Breiling thing should be a mute point. The only people who even know who he is and even consider anything he says are the same few immature posters on here.

So he walked out on his "job". Have the LEC meetings gone on without him and the notes he alledgedly has? yes. Has alpa ASA 112 shut down without him? No. It should be history and the people leading alpa 112 should worry about the here and now.

The really disturbing thing to me is all the people in the MEC that say they will quit and walk away if the "coalition" wins the election. I thought you guys were in this for the pilot group and not yourselves....seems to me that if you quit because you don't get your way or your candidate didn't win, that makes you no better than John.


So, are you guys in this for the whole pilot group or not?

The current MEC is here for the pilot group. If anyone said they would quit if the coalition was voted in it is only because they feel the coalition would turn against the pilots. If (and that's a big if) the coalition is voted in most of us feel they would just become a management tool. I wouldn't want to work for them either.
 
The current MEC is here for the pilot group. If anyone said they would quit if the coalition was voted in it is only because they feel the coalition would turn against the pilots. If (and that's a big if) the coalition is voted in most of us feel they would just become a management tool. I wouldn't want to work for them either.
theres no IF to it. Its been said more than once by many more than one. Most of the ones I've heard say it were people I very much respect. I would hate to think that those people would walk out like spoiled children that didn't get their way. I think they're better than that.

Who cares who gets credit for getting a "good" contract as long as its a good contract? If its reached before anyone "new" could take office, would you really want to "walk out" and let someone you feel would not do their best to enforce the contract have the keys to the kingdom and free rein?
 
theres no IF to it. Its been said more than once by many more than one. Most of the ones I've heard say it were people I very much respect. I would hate to think that those people would walk out like spoiled children that didn't get their way. I think they're better than that.

Who cares who gets credit for getting a "good" contract as long as its a good contract? If its reached before anyone "new" could take office, would you really want to "walk out" and let someone you feel would not do their best to enforce the contract have the keys to the kingdom and free rein?

Why would you work for someone you neither trust nor respect? Clearly you've never held a union position.
 
why are you still at ASA then? you've made it painfully obvious that you neither trust nor respect any one running or anything about ASA...

Good question. I stay because ASA pays me. ALPA does not pay their volunteers.
 
You can get paid by lots of companies...I thought you volunteered for the "good of your fellow pilots"....well, which is it? Do you care about your fellow pilots or not?

Well, since I personally don't volunteer, I guess that means I don't care. :rolleyes:

As for those that do, perhaps if they do care and feel that their efforts will be wasted by a leader who won't respect their actions, and thus make them ineffective, they lose the incentive to work for the union?
 
Well, since I personally don't volunteer, I guess that means I don't care. :rolleyes:

As for those that do, perhaps if they do care and feel that their efforts will be wasted by a leader who won't respect their actions, and thus make them ineffective, they lose the incentive to work for the union?
since you don't volunteer, I guess you don't care about anyone but yourself, huh?
At least I'm involved and help out when I"m able.
 
wow! words of wisdom from the great one....your lifes mantra???

It's too bad you can't get paid for being an ass, you'd be quite rich!

The whole John Breiling thing should be a mute point. The only people who even know who he is and even consider anything he says are the same few immature posters on here.
Excluding yourself of course, right?

So he walked out on his "job". Have the LEC meetings gone on without him and the notes he alledgedly has? yes. Has alpa ASA 112 shut down without him? No. It should be history and the people leading alpa 112 should worry about the here and now.
Because if he's not part of the solution, he's part of the problem!

The really disturbing thing to me is all the people in the MEC that say they will quit and walk away if the "coalition" wins the election. I thought you guys were in this for the pilot group and not yourselves....seems to me that if you quit because you don't get your way or your candidate didn't win, that makes you no better than John.

Maybe they know that with LJ and JB, things can get much worse, or did you know that already and are just adding more of your......Jibberish!?


So, are you guys in this for the whole pilot group or not?
I could ask you the same question?! All you seem to know how to do is flame.
I sincerely wish the ASA pilot group nothing but good fortune. They were great to our furloughees when they were on the street, and have seemed to gotten the smelly end of the stick! You, however, just seem to have an agenda of your own. Got any more flaimbait jackass??

737
 
Were I a volunteer, (maybe I am and maybe I'm not) I would have a difficult time supporting the Jackson 5 because I have good reason to believe that they have personal agendas at play here. I would also have a difficult time supporting a pilot group that was not informed enough to make a decision based on facts instead of fear. Remember, these people are volunteers and not paid or elected officials. All I can say is that if you think LJ and friends are the direction our new LEC should take, you had better be ready to put your money where your mouth is and assume the varied positions that will open up should this occur.

AT

P.S. I just gotta say one more thing about this whole situation. Whether you agree or disagree with the direction of our current LEC or MEC leadership, I really have to question the motives of a group that is willing to QUIT if they don't get you what they promise. Sounds like they lack commitment to the pilot group OR they already have a deal cut with management to ensure they maintain their positions. I don't like either of those situations.
 
AT

P.S. I just gotta say one more thing about this whole situation. Whether you agree or disagree with the direction of our current LEC or MEC leadership, I really have to question the motives of a group that is willing to QUIT if they don't get you what they promise. Sounds like they lack commitment to the pilot group OR they already have a deal cut with management to ensure they maintain their positions. I don't like either of those situations.[/quote]

I agree with you AT. The Jack@ss 5 is nothing but a bunch of mgmnt lackeys. They would screw us like no other and yet keep everything just peachy for themselves. Can't wait to see them go down in FLAMES!!!!!!!
 
wow! words of wisdom from the great one....your lifes mantra???

The whole John Breiling thing should be a mute point. The only people who even know who he is and even consider anything he says are the same few immature posters on here.

So he walked out on his "job". Have the LEC meetings gone on without him and the notes he alledgedly has? yes. Has alpa ASA 112 shut down without him? No. It should be history and the people leading alpa 112 should worry about the here and now.

The really disturbing thing to me is all the people in the MEC that say they will quit and walk away if the "coalition" wins the election. I thought you guys were in this for the pilot group and not yourselves....seems to me that if you quit because you don't get your way or your candidate didn't win, that makes you no better than John.


So, are you guys in this for the whole pilot group or not?

Those that have said they would not work with these individuals are volunteers on committees and are not part of the MEC. If Lynn Jackson and the Jacketts take office the only remaining MEC members would be the MEC Chairman and Sec./Treas. as the FAB 4 would then be in office. It is a given that the MEC Chairman would then be asked to resign or face recall.

Now for something that will be hard for your jaded mind to understand. John Breiling was elected by the pilots to serve as LEC 112 Sec/Treas. and has refused to do his duties. Many have asked John to resign his position and he refuses. He has said he hopes the MEC will try to recall him but they don't want to make him a martyr. I think they should have brought him up on charges under Article VIII of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws. They are probably correct that it is better to just ingore the worthless jerkoff!! So you see the difference is John B. will not resign and the volunteers have every right to resign since they were appointed and not elected by the pilots to their positions. So you say they are no better than John. A roach crawling on the floor during an LEC meeting is better than John. At least he showed up for the meeting.
 
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