ASA Going Away.

[av8er2]

How many think ASA will disappear soon? Many seem to think that there is a transfer plan in the works. There is a good bit of other airlines flying in ATL now, so the time to get the planes staffed again really may not be hard.

 

[Tarzan]

Run! Run for your life! Burn it down! Industry leading contract for the remainder of ASA's existence!

The only reason ASA will disappear is blowhards demanding what Skywest Inc is not willing to pay. Makes perfect sense though, get an industry leading contract and then cease exist. Tell again why I should be for ALPA?

 

[VeeOne]

I wouldn't be suprised at all to see ASA disappear- but not in the literal sence. I am guessing that within the next two months there is going to be a massive change. I am thinking that ASA will be merged under the Skywest name, ASA's name thrown to the curb (who wants our kind of name recognition), and our people transferred WITH our assets.

 

[Flight1339]

I had expected ASA to disappear a while ago when several of our IPs that went to ASA started jumping ship and going to Skywest.

 

[DrewBlows]

Run! Run for your life! Burn it down! Industry leading contract for the remainder of ASA's existence!

The only reason ASA will disappear is blowhards demanding what Skywest Inc is not willing to pay. Makes perfect sense though, get an industry leading contract and then cease exist. Tell again why I should be for ALPA?

You have a very high opinion of pilots. Last time I checked, pilots don't, have never, and likely will never make fleet or staffing decisions at any airline.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't expect things to happen that fast. SkyWest has achieved a "virtual merger" where there are only a very few duplicative management positions, most of which would be needed to manage an operation the size of ATL anyway. So the expense of running ASA is not that significant. SkyWest will continue along that path, moving the G.O. shrinking the safety dept., maybe consolidating dispatch.

The ASA fleet will remain the same size, roughly, until the ATR's go away next year. It is hoped by ASA management that 700/900's will replace the ATR's.

The variable will be the contract. If ASA's pilots accept slightly below industry average, the situation will remain static. If ASA pushes for an industry leading contract, SkyWest will accelerate the transfer of aircraft while enjoying the benefits of new hire pay scales. Mr. Atkin will correctly say that the ASA pilots made their choice. This isn't speculation, I have the memos and heard it straight from Jerry Atkin in our crew lounge.

Either way, ASA Management is along for the ride. This is beyond their control.

Sure something wild could happen, like Delta buying us back, but, the conservative path is the most likely - meaning more of the same. The aircraft leases can be transferred easily, but anything done rashly would be expensive and disrputive.

I see no reason why SkyWest management would not execute the plan they have outlined to the ASA pilots over the last several years. ALPA has done nothing to stop the transfer of assets (and claims to be powerless to do anything), SkyWest enjoys the flexibility of being able to operate ASA as a separate asset (including a Mesaba style re-org, or a sale) and there may be factors involving Delta that none of us are privy to.

The only safety to be found is in effective scope. The best scope is OneList.

 

[Silent Partner]

so what that other airlines are flying in ATL? Look at Charlotte and the multiple carriers that fly for USair. Don't base ASA going away because of that. Like a Northwest DC-10 pilot told me back in college.....If you want to make a difference in the airlne don't be a pilot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Or ALPA could use scope to contract growth from SkyWest, or percentage of new flying based on our relative size at the time of purchase (before the theft). I know, I know, but it is within their legal power.

No one has reported seeing ALPA's balls, but like folks searching for their lost dog I will keep asking. If someone should find ALPA's cojones, please send them back to Herndon, VA.

 

[Tarzan]

You have a very high opinion of pilots. Last time I checked, pilots don't, have never, and likely will never make fleet or staffing decisions at any airline.

I have to disagree there. They do; in regards to what they demand from their union leadership. If the union demands too much, the company can shut down or move the flying elsewhere.

I don't where else you've been but when the "powers that be" start making comments like I've heard here, it is not a threat. It is a statement of what will come. If pilots are not affecting staffing desicions there......

 

[atlcrjdriver]

It is a very distinct possibilty that JA will merge ASA and SKW in the same fashion that Republic joined its many units. You join everything but the operating certificates. ASA has gotten alot of bad press lately doing away with the ASA name may bring somewhat of a new beginning ala Critter/Citrus.

 

[scarlet]

Lets start a petition for single carrier status? Lets secure our jobs !!

 

[jstyle13]

Yea we will cease to exsist in the next few months because:

1. We aren't profitable (only around 35 mil a quater)
2. There are 1800 other trained pilots just waiting around somehwere to jump in and take over the flying immediatly.
3. JA's plan this whole time was to beat down the ASA pilots because they are union to prove a point...not to buy an airline that inspite of its problems is a huge cash cow.
4. It doesnt cost anything to have a completely different airline come in and set up infrastructure, training, crew bases etc....

Yup we're toast. Mainilne carriers have shown over and over the past few years that quality<insert sarcasm here>, not cost is the driving factor in the regional market place. Since Delta will pay millions of dollars more for top notch customer service<more sarcasm here> and positive press...ASA will be gone here in a few months<here too>. Whatever....

 

[mcjohn]

2. There are 1800 other trained pilots just waiting around somehwere to jump in and take over the flying immediatly.

Hmm...1800? Where'd you get that number?

 

[goahead]

Hmm...1800? Where'd you get that number?

Who cares all he is saying is that you couldn't replace all of us at once you couldn't even get 1000 people hired and trained within a year with everyone else hiring. The shortage of pilots is one thing we definitely have on our side.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Look around, guys. The last few months, it seems as though ASA management has just let go of the controls and is waiting for it to hit the mountains. They just don't seem to care what happens any more:

1. Loss of the -900 flying
2. Loss of all the RFPs they were bidding on
3. No end in sight to negotiations
4. Delta assumes control of our largest hub, eliminating the jobs of over 1700 people
5. Last place in every category
6. Loss of parking lot after 20 years, still not sure when we're moving
7. Rumored loss of Delta pass benefits. Management still hasn't addressed this with the crews though they told the under wing employees its true.
8. Massive attrition, many with over 15 years leaving. The training department has been decimated. Scott Hall is encouraging people to leave

They are just waiting until Jerry tells them to turn the lights off in the GO and take the flag down. ASA is history, I give it a year.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The variable will be the contract. If ASA's pilots accept slightly below industry average, the situation will remain static. If ASA pushes for an industry leading contract, SkyWest will accelerate the transfer of aircraft while enjoying the benefits of new hire pay scales. Mr. Atkin will correctly say that the ASA pilots made their choice. This isn't speculation, I have the memos and heard it straight from Jerry Atkin in our crew lounge.

True.

Jerry had lunch with the MEC chairman a couple of months ago and told him directly that if ASA is 1% more costly than Skywest, he will transfer the flying.

Not saying we should undercut them, just relaying that information. It's up to you, "max pay to the last day" or "take less hard pay in exchange for binding scope".

Be sure to let your union reps know which one you prefer.

 

[wms]

Look around, guys. The last few months, it seems as though ASA management has just let go of the controls and is waiting for it to hit the mountains. They just don't seem to care what happens any more:

1. Loss of the -900 flying
2. Loss of all the RFPs they were bidding on
3. No end in sight to negotiations
4. Delta assumes control of our largest hub, eliminating the jobs of over 1700 people
5. Last place in every category
6. Loss of parking lot after 20 years, still not sure when we're moving
7. Rumored loss of Delta pass benefits. Management still hasn't addressed this with the crews though they told the under wing employees its true.
8. Massive attrition, many with over 15 years leaving. The training department has been decimated. Scott Hall is encouraging people to leave

They are just waiting until Jerry tells them to turn the lights off in the GO and take the flag down. ASA is history, I give it a year.

I was just in recurrent and Scott is not encouraging people to leave. He just said that he knows most of us are using the regionals as a stepping stone to the majors. And with the hiring going on there, now is the time to get there because the longer you wait the greater the chance of being someone elses furlough-fodder. This window of opportunity won't last forever. He also stated that he's optimistic there will be good opportunities for those who stay at ASA.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I was just in recurrent and Scott is not encouraging people to leave. He just said that he knows most of us are using the regionals as a stepping stone to the majors. And with the hiring going on there, now is the time to get there because the longer you wait the greater the chance of being someone elses furlough-fodder. This window of opportunity won't last forever. He also stated that he's optimistic there will be good opportunities for those who stay at ASA.

Perhaps he's changed his tune. As late as a month ago, his speech was "I encourage anyone who want to leave to go. We'll even waive the two weeks notice. The more senior employees leave, the better our cost numbers get".

Many pilots have confirmed this.

 

[VeeOne]

Perhaps he's changed his tune. As late as a month ago, his speech was "I encourage anyone who want to leave to go. We'll even waive the two weeks notice. The more senior employees leave, the better our cost numbers get".

Many pilots have confirmed this.

I am thinking it isn't a fact of Scott Hall wanting people to leave, so much as it is that he realizes two things:

- With a nationwide hiring boom, he expects a large number to leave anyway and see's this place as a stepping stone.

-The more people that punch out and the more newhires we have, the less in retro will be paid out- if the company pays it out.

I am in total agreement with Pennekamp and Fins on the Skywest issue. If we cost more we WILL lose flying. We cannot be replaced over night but we can be blead to death in a slow manner over time as pilots can be hired. This boom won't last forever and I wouldn't hazzard to guess that by early 08 a lot of this hiring will be finished up. I wouldn't be off the mark by saying that Delta will shrink DCI flying anyway- we don't want to be the ones on the chopping block. As Delta grabs bigger aircraft, fewer 50's will be used and filled in with the 900's and 700's.

If anyone really cares about things or has a moment to spare- write a letter to the MEC. Posting on FI is great and opens up many viewpoints, but isn't a method of getting things done. WRITE YOUR MEC!!!!! I encourage this regardless of your viewpoint.

 

[Tarzan]

Of course he says he is optimistic. The number crunch is on for the regionals. Soon they will actually have to compete to get pilots to come to work for them. They may have assumed (incorrectly) that they could have kept up with the attrition. Now he is making an effort to slow the rate of guys leaving.

However, I still have my doubts about how the future will bear itself out. As Pennekamp said:

Not saying we should undercut them, just relaying that information. It's up to you, "max pay to the last day" or "take less hard pay in exchange for binding scope".

They may give us the pay but at what price. I for one would be content to take what the company is offerring for some sort of scope protection or equitable merger of the lists.