ASA...easy way out?

[Sinca3]

Disclaimer ¨my opinion only, like to hear everyone elses opinions¨

What if ALPA´s only request for this new contract was a DOH merger of the list. We all become Skywest pilots or ASA pilots however you want to look at it. We operate under the Skywest pilots working aggrement.
I have personally talked to Brian Labrecque and he said,¨I would love to have you operate with the Skywest pilots agreement.¨
If they agreed and the pilot group voted it in, I would think everyone would be happy in the near term. If ALPA still wanted a representational drive at Skywest they might have better success with 1700+ former ALPA members.
Just a thought....

 

[Bluto]

If they agreed and the pilot group voted it in, I would think everyone would be happy in the near term.

Um, yeah, except all the SkyWest pilots. Good luck with your contract.

 

[ReportCanoa]

You mean you don't want DOH integration?

 

[JustaNumber]

Um, yeah, except all the SkyWest pilots. Good luck with your contract.

Not to stir up too much trouble here, but in such a scenario, all the SkyWest pilots would have absolutely no say whatsoever. That's what comes with not having a union or an enforceable contract with scope provisions. If it works well for JA, it could happen, but that's where the sticking point would be.

While operating under the SkyWest contract would have its plusses and minuses, I think the best part of your plan for all the pilots involved would be one list. Eventually, we all need it, or else anything else we bargain for is worthless.

 

[Sinca3]

Um, yeah, except all the SkyWest pilots. Good luck with your contract.

I understand your point. I was thinking more along the lines of all ASA pilots. However, I could have stated a DOH or staple of Skywest pilots to the bottom of the ASA list since we are the one with such provisions and an enforecable (most the time) contract.
Anyways just some ideas to be thrown around by ASA people....

 

[atrdriver]

The biggest question is, if BL really would "love" to have us work under the Skywest pilots agreement, why hasn't it been offered?

 

[Sinca3]

The biggest question is, if BL really would "love" to have us work under the Skywest pilots agreement, why hasn't it been offered?

Good question....that´s why I lend my trust more towards the union than people like ol´Brian

 

[Old Crow]

If Chatiquitta can figure out a one list system, Why the heck can't ASA and SkyWest. I don't think that an "Option 2" scenerio should evolve, but an addition to current barganing could include One list, with PBS, dual qualified, and maybe some other items they want.
I don't really care if they transfer the a/c to SkyWest, it's just sad to see an airline run that way.

 

[ASADriver]

ATR and Sinca, would you still want the Skywest agreement even with the bad parts of it, or do you just want the good parts of it. Remember it has some good parts, but it also has lower 70 seat rates, dual qual, PBS, and no premium pay. I don't think you can only take the good parts of it. I personally would rather have the last company proposal than the Skywest agreement.

 

[Sinca3]

ATR and Sinca, would you still want the Skywest agreement even with the bad parts of it, or do you just want the good parts of it. Remember it has some good parts, but it also has lower 70 seat rates, dual qual, PBS, and no premium pay. I don't think you can only take the good parts of it. I personally would rather have the last company proposal than the Skywest agreement.

For simplistic debate I just say give us a merger of list and we all operate under the current Skywest agreement......at least until we all could get it changed

 

[atrdriver]

ATR and Sinca, would you still want the Skywest agreement even with the bad parts of it, or do you just want the good parts of it. Remember it has some good parts, but it also has lower 70 seat rates, dual qual, PBS, and no premium pay. I don't think you can only take the good parts of it. I personally would rather have the last company proposal than the Skywest agreement.

I would take the current Skywest agreement, with only 70 seat pay split off. I would go without premium if we had a 1:2 duty rig, 1:3.75 trip rig, and 4:10 min day, NOT ON A TRIP AVERAGE basis, but on a DAY FOR DAY basis. And it would have to be put in the form of an enforceable PWA, not a handshake agreement.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I would take the current Skywest agreement, with only 70 seat pay split off. I would go without premium if we had a 1:2 duty rig, 1:3.75 trip rig, and 4:10 min day, NOT ON A TRIP AVERAGE basis, but on a DAY FOR DAY basis. And it would have to be put in the form of an enforceable PWA, not a handshake agreement.

Oh, ATRDriver, you're so negative.... handshake agreements have worked so well for us over the last couple of years....

 

[ASADriver]

I would take the current Skywest agreement, with only 70 seat pay split off. I would go without premium if we had a 1:2 duty rig, 1:3.75 trip rig, and 4:10 min day, NOT ON A TRIP AVERAGE basis, but on a DAY FOR DAY basis. And it would have to be put in the form of an enforceable PWA, not a handshake agreement.

Well by looking at the two sides, I would say that management is closer to the Skywest agreement than ALPA is. If you improve the rigs slightly, and extend the 50 seat rate to 18 years, it looks to me like you just about have the Skywest agreement. Am I missing something?

 

[ASADriver]

Oh, ATRDriver, you're so negative.... handshake agreements have worked so well for us over the last couple of years....

And ALPA PWA haven't exactly worked out all that great either the last couple of years.

 

[Bluto]

You mean you don't want DOH integration?

Yes. That's what I mean. A % integration would be more fair. DOH would make people suffer for arbitrary hiring surges at either company, while % integration would keep everyone in roughly the same relative position company-wide.

 

[homerjdispatch]

I understand your point. I was thinking more along the lines of all ASA pilots. However, I could have stated a DOH or staple of Skywest pilots to the bottom of the ASA list since we are the one with such provisions and an enforecable (most the time) contract.
Anyways just some ideas to be thrown around by ASA people....

Well after reading the proposed ASA scope language, it appears that SkyWest, Inc. will be looking out for SkyWest pilots. In fact, if i read it correctly, and SkyWest moved only a portion of the aircraft from ASA to SkyWest at a time, you would end up reversing the seniority at ASA.
With the first group of airplanes junior guys get furloughed at ASA, then hired at SkyWest. Then the next movement happens....now junior guys at ASA get furloughed and hired at SkyWest (if they choose). Finally last group of aircraft moved and the most senior guys who have stuck around at ASA get furloughed and offered jobs at the bottom of SkyWest seniority list, AS F.O.'s.

 

[atrdriver]

Well by looking at the two sides, I would say that management is closer to the Skywest agreement than ALPA is. If you improve the rigs slightly, and extend the 50 seat rate to 18 years, it looks to me like you just about have the Skywest agreement. Am I missing something?

Yeah, you're missing something. The rigs need to be omproved a LOT. The 50 seat pay needs to be improved a lot. The 70 seat pay still needs to be split. The performance bonus needs me be based on Gross, not base pay. They need to remove all their little "hooks". Scope needs to be ironclad, not their idea of swiss cheese. There is more, but I'm tired.

 

[CFIT]

However, I could have stated a DOH or staple of Skywest pilots to the bottom of the ASA list since we are the one with such provisions and an enforecable (most the time) contract.
Anyways just some ideas to be thrown around by ASA people....

I'm sure the pilots of SkyWest wouldn't have a problem with being stapled to the bottom of your list, really.....




Take your car to Midas, you have a very bad muffler leak that has turned you into complete idiot. Get some air, you really need it.

 

[Crash Pad]

The only deal that can be made right now is this. Jerry we at ASA are sorry about the whole Union thing. In exchange for voting ALPA off the property we would like one airline. The agreement you have at your airline seems to keep your pilots happy and well compinsated. We would like that and the added job security.

SKYW pilots make more than us.... Pilot pay is not the issue.

SKYW is going to take all of ASA's assets and then offer you second year pay at the bottom of the list.

A split 70 rate only matters if you don't have 70's.

When SKYW takes our last 70 and ASA agrees to pay us $1000 an hour on the 70... will you then see the writing on the wall?

 

[MELIT]

This is funny. A union carrier wants to ride on the coat tales of a non-union carrier.

 

[Crash Pad]

Hey someone shows up and wants to bust a union that hasn't done a thing for me... I will make more money at SKYW and my job will be secure. You would have to be quite a hard liner to not make the deal.

The best part would be that everyone in the GO would be fired. SLC already has those jobs filled.

 

[ReportCanoa]

This is funny. A union carrier wants to ride on the coat tales of a non-union carrier.

Well, the SkyWest pilots wouldn't be treated so well if it were not for the union threat. So, in a round about way, you're wrong.

 

[Sinca3]

I'm sure the pilots of SkyWest wouldn't have a problem with being stapled to the bottom of your list, really.....

I´m sure they wouldn´t like it at all...I wouldn´t. Once again this scenario was asked to the ASA pilots. It´s not that I don´t care about the Skywest pilots, but they aren´t the ones in negotiations and they don´t have anything to stop this from happening!

 

[CFIT]

Sinca, have you declared on your medical that you are mentally retarded?

 

[MELIT]

Well, the SkyWest pilots wouldn't be treated so well if it were not for the union threat. So, in a round about way, you're wrong.

30+ years of union threat? Come on.

 

[scarlet]

Taking of union work SCAB---ALPA national needs to address every airline out there CAL Southwest FEDex UPS DAL United...that skywest pilots are willing to fly ASA unionized aircraft and routes !!!

 

[Bluto]

So SkyWest pilots are Scabs. Great. I'm glad we can have a reasonable discussion about this.

 

[MELIT]

Taking of union work SCAB---ALPA national needs to address every airline out there CAL Southwest FEDex UPS DAL United...that skywest pilots are willing to fly ASA unionized aircraft and routes !!!

ASA has no routes, they're Deltas. You don't have a problem flying Deltas routes, do you?

 

[sweptback]

Yes. That's what I mean. A % integration would be more fair. DOH would make people suffer for arbitrary hiring surges at either company, while % integration would keep everyone in roughly the same relative position company-wide.

A percentage merger would unfairly punish ASA pilots due to the recent growth at SkyWest and asset transfers that will most likely take place. A possible solution would be a percentage merger based on the SkyWest/ASA senority lists as of 9/05, since ASA really has not hired more than a couple classes since then, while SkyWest has hired hundreds.

 

[Crash Pad]

How about this. SKYW takes all the ASA 70 seaters. Then if they need some 50's they take those also. They hire new pilots to fly them for 1-5 year pay and put all the ASA pilots on the street.

We are past the point of squabling over the seniority list. That ship sailed last negotiation period. We are all headed for the bottom of somebodies list... maybe the bottom of the unemployment line.

The good news is. I have a hunch that in five months ASA will give our union whatever they want for 70 seat pay.