AS starts Bellingham-Honolulu

[Dix-Bag]

The Mad Dogs haven't been produced in years... The 737; even the 717 is a far better product.. Still, one of the big reasons for Allegiant's success is because of the MD's ultra-low entry cost. It's benefit eclipses even maintenance and fuel burn shortcomings of the tired jet.

Your theory about filling the plane is irrelevant on this type of run.. I'd buy it if you were talking about some EAS run from FMN to ABQ, but US Mainland-Hawaii is a milk run. Even out of a tertiary market like BLI. If you can fill 160 seats for $400.00 a seat, you can fill 220 for $320.00.

This is a leisure market my friend and the game has changed forever in this demographic. Like it or not, that's how it is now and there's money in running a used 1975 yellow school bus (in new paint). AAY isn't extremely successful because of bad decisions. AS has tried to mimic these decisions, but there is a big difference between AS and G4 with regard to cost structure and operating policies... It's not about JUST the city pairing; It's about the city pairing AND the right kind of operation...

And IMO, the 757 IS the right tool for the job.

 

[Green Banana]

Mainland-Hawaii is a milk run.

Really? I am not sure ATA and Aloha would agree with you.

Many have tried what allegiant is doing and most have failed. Time will tell.

The FAA is very touchy about giving ETOPS certification to a carrier. They do take past performance, aircraft age and maintenance into account. I also hope you have better maintenance on the 757 than your MD's. You know there is no place to go if one catches on fire, right?

 

[Dix-Bag]

Let me re-phase... It CAN be a milk run if done properly...

Time will tell...

No argument there RE: ETOPS.. I think the company is smoking crack if they think they're gonna have it by spring.. Most of us here do...

It's going to take a miracle IMO... But, that's a good thing for me... One of the reasons I'm bidding it is because I am counting on a year or more of sitting around

 

[CGHercster]

Call it the... aLLeGIANT affect.

 

[igneousy2]

The argument that allegiant has an advantage because of acquisition cost of airplanes is not true in this case. It may have been true if Allegiant was certifying their mad-dogs for ETOPS. Allegiant is acquiring a whole new type, complete with the extra crew, mx, and training cost just to fly to Hawaii. Alaska is adding an extra turn using an airplane, crew, and certification that it already has...during a time of day that the airplane would have been mostly sitting anyway. It looks to me that Alaska has the advantage on startup costs on this one.
Additionally, MD80's are dirt cheap. 757's are not.


Many successful airlines have been ruined by Hawaii...Mostly by prematurely running out and buying bigger airplanes.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

Really? I am not sure ATA and Aloha would agree with you.

Many have tried what allegiant is doing and most have failed. Time will tell.

The FAA is very touchy about giving ETOPS certification to a carrier. They do take past performance, aircraft age and maintenance into account. I also hope you have better maintenance on the 757 than your MD's. You know there is no place to go if one catches on fire, right?

As an Alaska pilot, you're seriously berating our MD-80 maintenance? Wow, short memory.

Save your breath, Dix. They don't understand the how this company works. Let's just see how it plays out. If it doesn't make money, there are a gazillion other places to put a 757. We won't keep an unprofitable route just so we can tell everyone we go there. Market share is not important, profitability is. That article is funny because it makes it seem like Alaska put that BLI-LAS route there the day after we started it. The truth is that we had been doing it for years before they jumped on the bandwagon.

 

[Ameriagle]

Selling cheap tickets doesn't make AS a LCC! AAY can sell cheap ticket's because they ARE a LCC! I will argue that AS would have been in the BLI market, offering point to point service, long ago if there was large profit's in it for them! That's not to say AS isn't making money or can't make money flying point to point from BLI, the question is more likely, is it the best utilization of their resources? The more likely scenario is AS is playing defense in the BLI market having seen a good chunk of that loyal PNW customer base siphoned off by AAY.

It's also a naive assumption to think AAY doesn't have the staying power to compete long term with AS in a market such as BLI. Proof is Northwest's experiment with point to point service in places like FAR, DSM, and FSD serveral years back. AAY may lack AS's pedigree but they have built a hugely profitable business in cities like BLI.

 

[Ameriagle]

The argument that allegiant has an advantage because of acquisition cost of airplanes is not true in this case. It may have been true if Allegiant was certifying their mad-dogs for ETOPS. Allegiant is acquiring a whole new type, complete with the extra crew, mx, and training cost just to fly to Hawaii. Alaska is adding an extra turn using an airplane, crew, and certification that it already has...during a time of day that the airplane would have been mostly sitting anyway. It looks to me that Alaska has the advantage on startup costs on this one.
Additionally, MD80's are dirt cheap. 757's are not.


Many successful airlines have been ruined by Hawaii...Mostly by prematurely running out and buying bigger airplanes.

I'm pretty sure Boeing sold AS that 737, it does cost money to operate it, and it's likely it cost AS some cash to jump through the ETOPS hoops as well. You are right though, it will not be a cheap endevour.

 

[pilotpm]

Are these the RB211's you are bragging about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DfTX-IAkdg
Is the smoke part of your ETOPS flight following program? :laugh:

Having flown the L1011 (your video), the 757 and the 737 I can say with authority, I miss the L1011. It was fun to fly out of someplace not used to the TriStar and the tower asking if we needed the fire trucks. The 757 with the same engine did not smoke like that and was a thousand times better than the 737 at doing Hawaii flying in comfort and range. I have no dog in this fight but All things being equal I'll take a 757 to HI over a 737. But of course we all know things will not be equal.