Arresting Cables?

[172driver]

I have a few questions about operating at mil/civ airports when the cables are up. Don't remember ever hearing the subject broached in training or seeing it in the manuals.

1. If the cables are advertised as active on Rwy 15 when we're landing, are they at the approach end or the far end?

2. Can we roll over them safely or should we/must we avoid them? For t/o and landing?

3. If they are to be avoided, why isn't there data published in our manuals?

 

[5ontheglide]

1. They can be at both ends of the Rwy. If there is a Tower - ask them if they are operational.

2. Unless you are looking for an interesting new way to trash a small airplane - AVOID THEM. (I have taxied over them before in a 172, but I do not encourage it - I know people who thought they'd give it a whirl and ended up spending the next 2 hours having their airplane forcefully removed from the barrier. not to mention having to deal with some very angry people about having the rwy closed.
Also, just because you see the Military and even Commercial traffic taxi,take off, or even land over them - don't try it!

3. Look at an airport diagram in your NACO charts. The symbols for where they are used on the airfield can be found there. I believe the AIM has something to say about arresting cables - I'm not 100% sure but I don't have one in front of me.

 

[172driver]

I'm more interested in info for airline ops(CRJ), despite my somewhat dated screen name. In my example, yes, they are operational, but it is not advertised on the ATIS which end they are being used on. Nor does the tower give any warning about it.

I know the signage and what they look like on the airport diagram but would like to know if airlines simply ignore them and roll over them or if they are to be avoided.

 

[PIO]

In the C-130 we can taxi over them but not land or takeoff over them. The wire can bounce up and rip off antennas from the belly. So if we land on a runway with raised barriers we have to land past the raised barrier. They can be raised at one or both ends of the runway.

Side note: I flew in a C-21(learjet) a while back to Kadena and they landed on the barrier and hit all three wires like it was no big deal at all. I asked the pilot about it and she said there was nothing in thier regs about it.

 

[TonyC]

It depends on the type and location of the arresting gear, and it depends on how your particular airplane is configured. I flew a very expensive large airplane that had lots of stuff hanging underneath it - - cables lying across the runway could wreak havoc.

Some arresting gear cables sit in a recessed groove and will have no effect as you pass over it. Once the system is activated, usually by a switch in the tower, it will pop up and you won't get by it.

Other types rest on top of the tarmac and might bounce or pop up when a wheel rolls over it. If there's something hanging low behind where a wheel would pass over the cable, it might cause damage.

So, given the various configurations and locations of arresting gear, and given the various configurations of airplanes that might be passing over them, the unqualified answer to your question is:

It depends.

Call the tower and ask them what they have.




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[TonyC]

I flew in a C-21(learjet) a while back to Kadena and they landed on the barrier and hit all three wires like it was no big deal at all. I asked the pilot about it and she said there was nothing in thier regs about it.

Kadena is the where we had the most trouble with the barriers. When we needed that runway, it was always a huge inconvenience. They'd have to send a crew out to pull the wire off before we took off or landed, and then put it right back on after we taxied off or departed. The F-15's needed the wire in place to operate, and we couldn't operate with it.


As much as they grumbled about it, they were good at it.






.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Why is it that all of the Air Force dudes like to call arresting gear the "barrier"?

Arresting gear = wire

Barrier = net




I can't count the number of times I've witnessed P-3s knocking the gear out of battery by sticking landings right on those suckers....unintentional, of course.

 

[TonyC]

Why is it that all of the Air Force dudes like to call arresting gear the "barrier"?

Arresting gear = wire

Barrier = net

OK, OK, and I didn't fly single-seaters, either. We didn't like either kind.








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[HoserASA]

I'm a retired USAF Controller so my information would be a little dated, but doubt that much as changed since I was in. Most USAF fighter bases will have a raised cable about 1000' from the approach end, and another one around 1000' from the departure end. The cable is elevated by what's called donuts evenly spaced apart across the cable. This enables a fighter to engage the cable when the plane's hook is down, most times intentionally, sometimes unintentionally . Very cool to watch a fighter engage the cable.

Like the F15 that landed one night and engaged the cable. Calls the tower "uh tower (call sign) think I engaged the cable here". Very tempting to ask why, is it difficult to taxi? The SOF was not happy about it.

I recall an aero club plane at Eglin taxi across the cable and get stuck. The donut had jammed between the plane's wheel and brake. Quite the comical sight from the tower. Poor guys had to get out of the plane and rock it back and worth to free it.
At ASA we usually take off on rwy 12 and taxi across the cable before applying take off power. When landing we land just beyond the cable.

 

[172driver]

At ASA we usually take off on rwy 12 and taxi across the cable before applying take off power. When landing we land just beyond the cable.

Ok, that's the kind of info I'm looking for, but the cables are usually at the thousand footers, right? Do you have performance numbers or any kind of guidance in your manuals for the reduced runway distance? Because at CMR we don't. If the cables are operational and we can't take off or land on/over them, there is going to be a significant performance penalty, but we have no guidance.

What would you do if you were at the gate, the cables were up, it's your only rwy available, and you are rwy limited? If we can't t/o over these things and we have no numbers, wtf do we do? This must happen pretty often...

 

[Smacktard]

At ASA we usually take off on rwy 12 and taxi across the cable before applying take off power. When landing we land just beyond the cable.

That's what I thought too until the other day flying with a guy that threw the power up prior to the cable, I 'asked' him if we should taxi down across them and he responds "why?" 5 seconds later..."Whaaam". That's why.

 

[climb2slow]

in the case of Eglin, i think the runway is like 13000 feet long, so I doubt there would be much performance penalty, however, that does not mean you don't need numbers to legally depart.

 

[172driver]

In CHS, it is only 9000 ft long. It is summer. The other rwy is 7000 ft, so there could well be a performance consideration...

 

[MarineGrunt]

I kind of wondered how the ASA dudes flying out of MGM do it when the barriers are up at each end of the runway. It only gives you 6,000' useable between them...

 

[geardown]

The perf numbers for ASA have data for the arresting gear. There will be data for say 12 @ VPS and then 12AAR which is for the raised gear.

 

[Hovernut]

In CHS, it is only 9000 ft long. It is summer. The other rwy is 7000 ft, so there could well be a performance consideration...

You ought to post this in the 50 seater questions area of our ALPA board to see what the program manager has to say. I'd be interested to see!

I used to have to 'land long' at North Island NAS in San Diego when in the flying club planes. They kept the wires up most of the time. Any time I've encountered them in the RJ, they were deployed for some military ops, then retracted for our arrival/departure.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I kind of wondered how the ASA dudes flying out of MGM do it when the barriers are up at each end of the runway.

I am guessing if there are barriers up at each end of the runway, nobody is going anywhere.