Army Warrant Officer Flight Program

[StrykerFL]

I would like to pose a few of questions to the Army Aviators out there concerning the Army Warrant Officer Aviation Program.

I am 28 years old and I have begun the paperwork process towards becoming a Warrant Officer Candidate. I am told that the paperwork side of this will take up to a month and I should be before the selection board by March. I have been doing a lot of research on Army Aviation and I feel I have a pretty good idea of what to expect, however I was just curious as to what it is actually like coming from you those of you who are Army Aviators.

1. What is the transition like going from fixed-wing to rotor?

2. I was told that you have a say somewhat to which airframe that you will fly. Is this entirely true and which is the best to fly in your opinion? Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook, etc.

3. How much flight time do you average a month or year?

4. What are your duties while you are not flying? Administrative, Squadron duties, etc.

5. Is it difficult getting into the fixed-wing side after a few years of rotor time? Is it on an as needed basis?

6. Finally, how do you like being an Army Aviator? Lifestyle, how often do you move around, and what are the deployments like?

Any advice or words of encouragement for or against would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jurisj]

1. What is the transition like going from fixed-wing to rotor?

Most people have no trouble. They'll work the "airplane" out of you at Rucker. I'm sure there's some current or former IPs that could answer this question better.

2. I was told that you have a say somewhat to which airframe that you will fly. Is this entirely true and which is the best to fly in your opinion? Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook, etc.?

Ultimately it doesn't matter what other folks think because most people think their airframe is the best. You need to look at the different missions and decide what it is you want to do. I like having a variety of missions and I like working directly with the infantry. Therefore my aircraft, the Blackhawk, is a good match for me. Would I be happy in an Apache, Chinook, or KW? Absolutely. Am I a little jealous of getting to shoot back? Yup. Would I switch communities? Probably not. Find your niche and go for it.

3. How much flight time do you average a month or year?

I'm not a good example because I'm only about 6 months out of the school house and don't fly as much as some of the senior guys. I typically fly 2-3 times a week while in garrison and just about every night when deployed. Missions can last from 1-5 hours, depending on what missions are up. Ash and trash missions tend to be shorter while the big air assaults tend to go 4-5 hours.

4. What are your duties while you are not flying? Administrative, Squadron duties, etc.

Everyone has additional duties. As a junior warrant you'll have many which become fewer and fewer as more new guys show up. When you get more senior you'll end up tracking into a specialty (instructor pilot, safety, tactical operations, or maintenance) and that becomes your primary job. Additional duties can be anything from filling the snack fridge (fridge beeatch) to voting assistance officer to unit movements officer. Some jobs are bigger than others. You'll also help out around the unit for anything else that comes up during the day... like going out and doing runups with the maintenance pilots.

5. Is it difficult getting into the fixed-wing side after a few years of rotor time? Is it on an as needed basis?

You can apply for the fixed wing course when you get the minimum amount of required time. I can't recall the prereqs but you can find it somewhere on the web. The course is called FWMEQC (Fixed Wing Multi Engine Qual Course). Competition is pretty fierce for the slots, as you can imagine. Finishing that course incurs a 5 year obligation.

6. Finally, how do you like being an Army Aviator? Lifestyle, how often do you move around, and what are the deployments like?

You alternate between stateside and overseas assignments. Most stateside assignments are for 3 years and overseas can be 1-3 years so you move around a lot. As for how I feel about being an Army Aviator? Well, sometimes there's more Army than Aviator involved in my job. All in all I like it though there's some days where it's the job I love to hate. The jury is still out on whether I am going to stay in past my initial obligation. I don't regret coming in at all and I have a lot of fun with it. My deployments so far have only been to other bases stateside so I can't really answer that one for you.

Good luck. Cheers,

- Juris

 

[Hobbsm1]

Run away, be very afraid. The Army is not the place to be.
I repeat, the ARMY IS NOT THE PLACE TO BE! Keep instructing and become a freight doggy!



H60 driver.

 

[Checks]

I remember having some really important additional duties:
Fridge B*itch
Voting Officer
Piss Boy
Energy conservation Officer
Recycling Officer
PT Officer
Cup-n-Flower Officer


Just throw "Officer" at the end and all of a sudden it became "important"
What a joke. I even remember doing post clean-up twice as a CW2. The thought of Korea every two years made up for it though.

 

[Anaconda]

the irony of it was that those "really important additional duties" were what determined your evaluation reports while such things as being a highly-skilled and proficient pilot took a back seat to being piss boy etc.

i've said my peace on this subject, you can do a search for it to see what i think, but in a nutshell my good buddy Hobbsm1 pretty much summed it up...

 

[scotts]

Dude.....

Before I begin my rant, I'll let you know that I'm a retired CW3 UH60 MTP. I'll probably get flamed over this, but here goes.

Okay, first you've got to understand that our economy is in the sh!tter and pilot jobs are few and far between. That can lend a certain "attractiveness" to a career as an aviator in the Army. You know, financial security and all that. Oh yeah, don't forget that we get deployed all over the world to put out the little fires our government likes to get involved in and by the way, you may get shot at by some raghead. Yeah, I know that you probably want to do your part and serve your country. Do you have a spouse and children? If you do, are you willing to sacrifice their future so that you can satisfy your urge to serve? What I mean is, if you get shot down and killed while patrolling some god-forsaken patch of desert what will your family do? Think about it. You can serve your country in many other ways that won't get you killed in the process. Don't give up on a civilian career just because the job market is tight right now. Eat beenie weenies and mac & cheese while driving your 15 year old nissan to work. In two or three years you'll be driving to work to go fly a jet for a regional. If you join the Army...

What is your primary motivation for being a Warrant? Is it because you want to fly? Aren't you already flying? If it's because you want to fly, you will be sorely disappointed in the amount of time you actually spend in that helicopter cockpit. Fixed wing you say? Well, I don't know about anyone else, but when I applied as a CW2 UH60 MTP with eight years service in the Army, a good record (no three blocks and mostly one blocks), and a LOR from a 4 star, I didn't get selected. Of course, there were only 33 slots available for over 2000 aviators applying. So, don't count on getting the fixed wing course unless you know the assignments manager and he really wants you to get it (hint, hint).

If you just have to be an Army Aviator, when the time comes, ask to be an Instructor Pilot (IP). If you want to fly post-army, doing anything else will make it harder on you during your transition. Safety and maintenance won't get you the hours you want.

Do I sound bitter? I'm not. Just telling it like it is. I was prior service Navy enlisted. I worked on A-6's. I only spent 11.5 years in the Army and by the time I could retire, I was really burned out. It was hard to deal with the constant flow of O3 commanders and O1 platoon leaders (most all of them in their twenties) parading by, each one wanting to "make his (or her) mark" and move on to the next level in their careers. All the while, the warrants driving on with our technical specialty - Flying - at least, when we could get in the cockpit. Thank God I could retire before stop-loss could get me (and my family).

Just remember, once you sign that paper and swear that oath, Uncle Sam owns you for six? years. You now follow orders and suck it up, whether you like it or not.

Think long and hard about it.

 

[gundriver]

Here! Here!........ Scotts nailed it!!!!

 

[Anaconda]

yeah, he did...that post should be required reading for anybody considering that program.

 

[AH64driver]

The Army use to be the place to be if you wanted to fly helicopters and get a lot of flight time. It's really up to the individual........I'm getting out and going to fly the BUFF in the AFRES. Does that tell you anything?? Army Flight school has been through so many changes in the past 9 years it's not even funny. I flew the UH-1 for primary back in '94. You'll fly the TH-67(B206). As far as in which bird to fly, go for the CH or UH, flying Apaches will piss you off because you'll fly about 70-80 hours in a year, MAYBE!! I've had to get waivers for flight time all year because the Army doesn't take flying seriously so trying to to stay current is a joke!! I'm getting my flying "fix" from flying cargo(FAR 135)in a Cessna Caravan during the week to keep me happy. The choice is yours, apply and find out for yourself if the Army was the right decision for you and only you. Some guys love it, some hate it. Like I said, I'll be out in 11 months and going to fly B-52s' in the Air Force reserves. You'll get picked up for flight school, the Army is hurting for pilots right now..........good luck.

"VIPERS!!"

 

[KiloBase]

Words Of Wisdom!

Those are true words of wisdom! I joined the army because I always had a desire to fly helo's. I have and I am ready to move on. In the big picture I don't have any regrets. But I wouldn't say it has been the best way to get 2,000 hrs. I have seen lots of people that have gotten that in just 2 or 3 years and went home every night. Like the man said take a look at your situation and see why you want to do it and go from there.

 

[Anaconda]

so StrykerFL, what's your status???

 

[Furious]

I am currently in the Air Force as Security Forces K-9... I have been working on applying for WOFT for the last two months or so. The process takes some time...at least for people who are already active duty...so I'd give yourself a little more than a month to get it done if you can.

One big thing to remember with the military...that's any branch...is that the government will do whatever they want with you and that can be challenging on the home life. I'm not an aviator (yet) so I can't speak on that lifestyle, but the military as a whole has been a good stepping stool for me.

I have enjoyed moving around to different places. If you like to travel...you will do that. I spent two years in Turkey, a year and a half in Guam, and have now been in CA for 3 years. I've been to and through about 10 other countries and have enjoyed my time in most of them.

Just know that you WILL deploy...and you will have people younger and less experienced than you telling you what to do.

I'd recommend taking all of the pro's and con's you hear about and look in the middle...you'll find reality.

 

[Anaconda]

I am currently in the Air Force as Security Forces K-9... I have been working on applying for WOFT for the last two months or so.

every single former air force guy that i met hated being in the army and thought army aviation was a total joke...

there is a reason a ton of guys from the army get out and go in the air force...

 

[OviedoBob]

I enjoyed the Army (as a Warrant) so much that I couldn't wait to get out after my initial 6 year obligation, finished my degree with Embry Riddle, joined the Navy for fixed wing flight school, flew in the Navy and retired after 22 years of active duty. The Navy made much more use of my talents than the Army ever wanted to. I never regretted getting out of "this man's Army".

 

[pilotyip]

Experience with WO's

We have hired Army's Helo pilots right into our fixed wing flying in the DA-20 Falcon, they had under 100 hrs fixed time in C-150's and BE-58's) they had no problems making that transition. In most aspects they were better fixed pilots than some with 2000 hr fixed wing EAU, UND, CFI guys. They understood advanced aircraft systems, profiles, and cockpit discipline. These traits mark you as a professional, being a graduate of military flight training program marks you as a professional in just about everyone's eyes. As stated above it is not for everyone, and your reasons for serving have to be a desire to serve, not a motivation to build flight time. Your ability to chose your life style is a tribute to those who preserved those freedom's around the world at great personal sacrifice, family separation, and loss of individual freedom. I can personnally say I have almost without exception never meet an ex-Army WO who I did not admire for their devotion to duty under difficult circumstances. The choice is yours you can not go to far wrong by going into Army Aviation.

 

[weekendwarrior]

If you like to continue to fly FW, and still have a burning desire to serve and fly helo's, you might consider joining the Guard. This way you get the best of both worlds. Military flight school on your resume as posted previously, some (not alot) of flight time. Multi-turbine time (60,64,47) as recognized by some companies, but not all. (US customs is my goal, and they count 100% multi time for helo guys)
You'll spend a year and half training, come out with about 200 hours time, and you got PAID to put rotocraft instrument onto your commercial. If you don't like it, you are stuck for 6 years of guard duty, instead of stuck somewhere active you don't want to be (unless you get deployed of course, which is likely in todays world, but not forever).

So the way I look at my decision, it cost me 1 1/2 years of my life training, during a time when the aviation jobs really suck, and it's hard to build time. I got paid better than I would as a CFI for this time. I got a rotor instrumentrating in the process which equates to ALOT of money. I have rotor to fall back on if I don't find a FW job. I get to fly a cool aircraft on the weekend. And best of all, I go home at night.

Some people will knock the guard, but IMHO, it's the best part time job flying you can get. All the WO's that are in my unit got out of active for all these reasons, and enjoy flying Army much more now, since it's not a full time BS commitment that others have stated here with Army aviation.

As far as FW transition is concerned, it will be weird at first with pedal control. There are some fixed wing habbits that won't die, but I worked through them eventually. You will be miles ahead of eveyone else. Radios, patterns, navigation, instruments, etc. I'm in instruments now and am coasting through it with a 95 average with no problems, due to most of it being a review (and it's building more IFR time, too).

Whatever your choice, best of luck.

 

[SkyMutt]

Do you have to be in the National Guard Full-time, as in 40hr work weeks, for 7 years inorder to fly helicopters with the guard?? Do you HAVE to be a warrant officer inorder to get training at Ft. Rucker??

 

[weekendwarrior]

No you don't have to be in the Guard full time. As a pilot, you serve one weekend a month, plus any additional flight training periods you schedule, which amounts to a couple of nights per month additional. Then you have your 2 week training for your annual training.

When you go to flight school, you go through WOCS (warrant officer candidate school) right here at Fort Rucker before you start flight school. It is a 6 week course.

So to answer your question, no you are not a Warrant Officer before you come here. You are a Warrant Officer Candidate when you get here. You are whatever your enlisted grade was before you put your packet in for WOCS.

 

[SkyMutt]

thx for the info, i have one more question for ya. I understand that it is very competitive to get into the flight program in the national guard. I'll be recieving my A&P license some time next year. Could i work FULL TIME as a helicopter technician and at the same time work toward my priviate pilot license. Then after working with the unit for a few years apply for the flight program? Do you think this method is practical? However, i should stay in an gain experiance as a mechcanic because like you said i cant fly full time and I'll need another job while im flying part time for the Guard.

 

[weekendwarrior]

You can do this up until you attend flight school. Many Techs do this. They serve in the guard as a mechanic, then work for the guard as a tech during the week. The issue is that a tech job is held by someone with the same MOS. If you go to flight school, you won't be eligible for that job when you get back from flight school.

Yes, it's competative, but not that competative. Depends on the state, the mission, etc. Check with the aviation S1 shop at your local unit, they should be able to tell you how many people they have waiting to go.