Army pilots, WO or LT

[WMUSIGPI]

Looking for opinions on which path is better to take, Warrant Officer flight training or go to OTS and become a LT? Hoping to fly fixed wing planes asap. But a few years of helos to get there works for me. Would go navy or air force but the army is the only one willing to talk to my with my lousy eyesight.

 

[skiddriver]

Fixed wing transition in the Army is notoriously difficult to get, and requires an extended commitment. Go to

http://forumco.com/aptap/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11&CAT_ID=6&Forum_Title=APTAP+Message+Board

and nose around a little. Mainly Army guys and they can give you more info.

WOs fly more in the Army, LTs get paid more but do more ground job work (leadership & admin stuff).

 

[Anaconda]

Hoping to fly fixed wing planes asap...but the army is the only one willing to talk to my with my lousy eyesight.

then don't go in the army...

but you probably already know that by now.

check out your aptap post for the answer to your vision question. your recruiter obviously doesn't know the regs...

 

[tcoll777]

current army reg. states that vision must be no worse than 20/50 uncorrected, but must be correctable to 20/20...

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Thank you everyone. Sounds like I should either get the cargo job or find a new career. Either way I won't be instructing any longer. Makes the Navy offer to train me to be an air traffic controller more appealing even if it is enlisted instead of officer.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I'm in flight school right now, and have heard that one C-12 slot goes to a fresh W01 every few classes. Most of the fixed wing drivers are CW2 and above, after they have looged some rotor time. I hope to get a C-12 slot sometime in the future at my NG unit when I get back home. It's usually held by a W5 or LTC, but can't hurt to try.

As far as WO or LT is concerned, go Warrant. 6 week WOC school, and a hell of alot less BS to deal with. Come in, brief, fly, de brief, go home. That's pretty much it, from what I can tell. Pay is not quite as good, but it works, and you don't have all the leadership and paperwork crap that a branch officer has. Your main responisibily is your aircraft, mission, and crew. The branch guys have that, plus command, inventory responsibility, and other duties.

 

[Anaconda]

I'm in flight school right now, and have heard that one C-12 slot goes to a fresh W01 every few classes.

as far as i was able to tell in 10 yrs of service, that is nothing but an urban legend. i have never been able to verify that claim, and that fact was verified by an e-mail i received from DA

Come in, brief, fly, de brief, go home. That's pretty much it, from what I can tell.

yeah, that's exactly what you do...maybe in the guard.

man, do you have a lot to learn...

 

[weekendwarrior]

Exactly, in the guard. Active duty, I know it is more disciplined than that. Sure, there are other duties to do in the guard, ALSE, Safety, etc in the guard, but from what I saw from a few months of drilling with my guard unit, that about sums it up.

I did not get a chance to see the additional flight hours they came and got other times during the month, nor have seen what kind of acedemics they have to keep up on for checkrides, so yes, I do have alot to learn.

I did notice that the Warrants had far less responsibility and time commitements than did the branch officers. I frequently saw Warrants leaving at 4:00 P.M. when the branch guys were there till 7:00 or so.

So, my opinion, from the limited amount of exposure I have had and have talked to others (I can only speak for the guard) the Warrant Officer devotes more of their total duty time to flying and staying proficient than do the branch officers. For those not wanting to be in command, and wanting to be involved primarily with flying, Warrant Officer is the way to go. For those who desire more pay and advancement, but don't mind the additional duties and responsibilities, then branch officer is the way to go.

My opinon from limited experience only, your milage may vary.

 

[weekendwarrior]

As far as the C12 slots go, I agree it does seem to be more urban legend, but I do know of someone 3 classes before me that got a C12 slot. Don't know whose back he scratched to get it, or if it was just a fluke, but he got it. Fresh out of flight school.

This is only one person that I have heard of since I have been at Fort Rucker now (7 months), so it indeed could be a fluke. I would definately not base a decision on coming in on the hopes of getting a fixed wing slot.

 

[Apache54]

What???

Weekendwarrior - what unit are you in?

For more than a few years as a warrant, I have been the property book/supply officer, a tactical operations - electronic warfare oficer, comsec officer, and an instructor pilot. I have NEVER seen a single officer leave at 4pm. Most warrants are busy planning the missions as directed and the LTs are dealing with crew chiefs that pissed hot, missed formation, etc... Go be an IP in a tactical unit at home and fly progressions, APART evals, battle drills, etc... every night of the week. Cause when I go to work at 4, that LT is downloading porn in his corner office. He sure isnt there when I land, and then perform my additional duties till 4am. Better yet, go maintenance track and watch guys work 14 hour days all week to keep the rest of us safe and flying missions. Thats certainly different when you become an indentured servant to the S3 office as an LT. Are there some really great LTs - sure. Some bad ones too just as there are some really great warrants and others I'm ashamed of. So weekendwarrior - stay off the air - you are clueless.

To those who question LT vs WO1 - there are many trains of thought as to what is better. Well Lts have better pay and more colorful brass as they get older. Warrants do not have to deal with the personnel crap, or finance crap, etc... that LTs usually deal with (unless you become a W3 or W4 XO - not totally uncommon). There are many pros and cons. If you want to be an officer who mainly flies - go warrant - but expect to perform well in the brotherhood and all your other jobs. That means understanding the the definition of a warrant as a technical and tactical expert. If you want the rank and title of being a commander, etc, and don't mind being a staff guy most of your career, go commissioned. Being the platoon leader or commander is a great responsibility and in the advanced airframes we have, a really good leader must also be a fantastic crewmember. So the choice is yours regarding your future...

Besides, the writing is on the wall - there might be an end to the warrant officer corps soon anyway.

As far as the fixed wing stuff - info straight from D/1-145 OBC (LT portion of flight school) instructors - a rare slot is usually available 2-3 per year for an LT to go C-12 right out of flight school. From B/1-145 (warrant branch of flight school) - NO WAY A WO1 WILL GET A C-12/FWMEQC UNLESS HE IS SENT THERE BY A GUARD UNIT FOR THAT PURPOSE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Fly safe and keep the dirty side down.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Apache 54, If you were to read my original and subsequent post, my observation was from my limited exposure. I wasnt' saying that is how it always is, just from what I observed during a few months of drilling.

Maybe our unit has alot of other things that go on behind the scenes that I had not seen. Nevertheless, I was released with the Warrants who flew those days at 4:00 or 5:00 at the latest. That's all I can say, is that is how it was for 3 consecutive months of weekend drills.

Perhaps the shorter hours is because our unit is encountering alot of changes. Perhaps it was a fluke thing, I don't know. But to tell me that I am clueless when all I was doing was making an observation from *limited* experience is ludicrist. I never claimed to be an expert on the topic. It was very clear I had a disclaimer on my unit, over a short period of time.

I do have alot to learn, and I respect the fact that you know a heck alot more about this sort of thing than I do. Are you an IP at Rucker? I'd like to get more info from on you on the -64, as I will be attending AQC this sping.

 

[HueyPilot2]

When I graduated from IERW, there was a guy who graduated in the class ahead of me who actually did get a FW slot. But that was years ago...things change.

How about cutting the kid some slack? How much did you know when you were flying TH-67s? About as much as I did....or weekendwarrior did. Which isn't much. And the Guard is a whole different world apart from the active duty. I didn't have much to do other than fly when I was a Guard bum copilot.

One thing that I do remember well from those days as a new pilot...I despised the cranky old farts who felt my presence (and other new pilots) was more a hinderance (one even kept calling me the "student"), and instead of teaching me the ropes they felt it was more their duty to haze me. Interestingly, not only did I dislike these arse-munches, but so did the majority of the unit.

So which are you going to be Apache54? The one who'll help bring these new guys up or the one who'll be a jackarse?

 

[ToBeKC135Pilot]

To defend Weekend Warrior, let me say that the guy made it very clear that those were simply his OBSERVATIONS after a few months. A respectful person would have politely corrected him and not made a comment about someone being clueless and stay "off the air"

I joined an air guard unit, and part of the reason stems from the attitude that some are showing on this board (I almost did the ARMY Guard). Always complaining about some LT who thinks he is hot stuff, etc. When I visited the Army Guard unit to look at flying, everyone complained all the time.

What did I notice in the Air Guard? Everyone loved their job, no one complained, and they respected the questions you had. Is one branch necessarily all that better? Depends on what you want. BUT, contentment is a choice. So Weekendwarrior and anyone else going to fly army, make the fact the you love the job overflow from your lips, and break the cycle of negativity! RISE UP!! WE WILL OVERCOME

 

[velvetjo]

If your soldiers aren't bitching, something's really wrong.

Essayons!