Arik Airlines?

[CitationUltra]

Thanks to all those with experience on the subject of Africa. I am one of those "shoulda been a ditchdigger F/O's" who was considering African contract employment as a possibility. After reading this thread and others, I don't know what came over me.

As for the subject of pay, what are we supposed to do about it? I know that you more experienced guys and gals have seen pay rates drop over your careers. It sucks, there's no doubt about it. And while it's sad to see the decline in the profession, what can we do?

I WISH I could make $5000/month as an F/O. But pay rates are what they are now, not in 1975.We won't see $5000/ month (even $2500 is pushing it w/o per diem) starting F/O pay in the US ever again for a regional carrier (or any carrier the way things are going).

There is always someone willing to work cheaper, no matter if your a pilot, lawyer,doctor,ditch-digger,etc.

Actually, no--lawyers, doctors and ditch-diggers have had the good sense to remain in solidarity among themselves and keep their rates of remuneration at an appropriate and acceptable level. It is primarily among pilots that you find that "There is always someone willing to work cheaper..." and this is what has ruined scheduled commercial aviation in America, and what threatens to ruin contract aviation worldwide, as a profession.

 

[xshuttlefa]

Actually, no--lawyers, doctors and ditch-diggers have had the good sense to remain in solidarity among themselves and keep their rates of remuneration at an appropriate and acceptable level. It is primarily among pilots that you find that "There is always someone willing to work cheaper..." and this is what has ruined scheduled commercial aviation in America, and what threatens to ruin contract aviation worldwide, as a profession.

But the fair pay idea varies from one person to another. Someone might consider,for example $30,000 a good starting rate, another $35,000. If my fair rate is 30k and someone else wants to work somewhere for 25k, I can't stop them from doing it.

This hits the main point of your post, Ultra. We have no solidarity like the other professions or even organized labor. You would think it would be otherwise, since there are less pilots as a profession then some of the other groups mentioned.

But how can we fix our broken system,especially now? The other poster was right, in the fact I would have never considered Africa a few months ago. But now, being out of a job, I'm considering many different options. Many others are doing the same and some have a more adventurous spirit then me.

$4500 a month to be an F/O sounds pretty good when you aren't making any money at all. For me, taking other things into consideration,it's not enough to change my life completely, but for someone it may be.

 

[Dix-Bag]

Lagos ain't that bad.. Try living in Kinshasa..

Makes Lagos look like Club Med..

Africa is Africa.. As long as you're there for a finite period of time, and that period is less than a couple of months, (and you're not unwilling to adapt to COMPLETELY NEW ideals) it's an interesting experience that you can only walk away from a bigger and more appreciative person.

Do it for the experience though and not for the money.. If you go into something for "the experience" you cannot be dissapointed.. If you go purely for the dollars, than you will want to kill yourself after a month..

 

[Captzaahlie]

Sounds like a real party, I sent off for one of the contract packets and was not impressed that i had to buy my on flight to be "assessed" in Gatwick. then i could submit to Arik for half the price of the ticket refunded. Not sure I want to work 2 months on always looking over my shoulder.... maybe as a last resort.

 

[metrodriver]

Xshuttlefa and others: if you want to know what fair pay is for a contract job, try to find out what they were paying before, and take that as a guide line.
In case of Arik the $4500 a month is definately not enough. What is this? a bunch of kids that want to play in a grown men's world? With less than $4500 a month you can not afford a house, a wife and kids in the US. And even if you had them, you wouldn't want to spend 2 month at a time away from them. So you are kids. Africa is not a place to be if you haven't been around the world a bit. It is totally different flying than you are used to.
And then Lagos..... sadly enough that was in 2007 my most flown-into destination. Half the time I ended up in a hotel, a 30 room thing with 12 feet high walls with razorwire and 3 guards with AK47's, in addition to some unarmed guards who opened the gates. After dark there was a big chain with padlocks on the front door. This was in the good part of town. I have heard of several hotel robberies, including casualties (an american tv program maker got killed in one of them), robberies on the street are quite normal, usually by folks dressed as police. Some airlines like North American provide very heavy security, others none. I will do everything in my power to make it out of there. Sometimes the flighttime rules are what screws up the plans, 20hr duty day? Will do it if there is a better place to put your head to rest.
Sitting in a hotel with only the pool as entertainment for several days in a row becomes a drag very soon. And in Lagos you will not venture out of the hotel.

Look on the US dept of state website or the one from SOS international regarding travel advice to Lagos.

Happiness in Lagos starts at V1

 

[xshuttlefa]

Xshuttlefa and others: if you want to know what fair pay is for a contract job, try to find out what they were paying before, and take that as a guide line.
In case of Arik the $4500 a month is definately not enough. What is this? a bunch of kids that want to play in a grown men's world? With less than $4500 a month you can not afford a house, a wife and kids in the US. And even if you had them, you wouldn't want to spend 2 month at a time away from them. So you are kids. Africa is not a place to be if you haven't been around the world a bit. It is totally different flying than you are used to.
And then Lagos..... sadly enough that was in 2007 my most flown-into destination. Half the time I ended up in a hotel, a 30 room thing with 12 feet high walls with razorwire and 3 guards with AK47's, in addition to some unarmed guards who opened the gates. After dark there was a big chain with padlocks on the front door. This was in the good part of town. I have heard of several hotel robberies, including casualties (an american tv program maker got killed in one of them), robberies on the street are quite normal, usually by folks dressed as police. Some airlines like North American provide very heavy security, others none. I will do everything in my power to make it out of there. Sometimes the flighttime rules are what screws up the plans, 20hr duty day? Will do it if there is a better place to put your head to rest.
Sitting in a hotel with only the pool as entertainment for several days in a row becomes a drag very soon. And in Lagos you will not venture out of the hotel.

Look on the US dept of state website or the one from SOS international regarding travel advice to Lagos.

Happiness in Lagos starts at V1

Thanks for the info, metro. Although I know Africa to be a dangerous place, I have not been to that section of the world before, it's good to hear first hand experience. Again, I've put the thought out of my head.

In regards to the pay, $4500/month comes out to $54,000 USD. As I posted previously, to make that kind of money in the US as an F/O on an RJ is impossible. For some airlines, that's not even 3rd year captain pay at guarantee (not considering per diem).

And there are lots of people here that make less then that (both F/O and captain) and support a family, although I'm sure the spouse is working too.

 

[BLing]

In regards to the pay, $4500/month comes out to $54,000 USD. As I posted previously, to make that kind of money in the US as an F/O on an RJ is impossible. For some airlines, that's not even 3rd year captain pay at guarantee (not considering per diem).

Maybe you didnt read my previous posts on this subject? Considering the fact base pay at Arik for FO's was $72000/yr plus perdium and cash thrown at them under the table at times. Total pay was around $90,000/yr for some. So accepting $54,000 to fly in Nigeria makes you and anybody else a whore!

 

[xshuttlefa]

Maybe you didnt read my previous posts on this subject? Considering the fact base pay at Arik for FO's was $72000/yr plus perdium and cash thrown at them under the table at times. Total pay was around $90,000/yr for some. So accepting $54,000 to fly in Nigeria makes you and anybody else a whore!

Somehow I missed your other posts. NOW I understand

 

[metrodriver]

The thing I am still wondering about is who is Protec Technical?
The very first crews Arik had were from Parc, who once in a while still has an ad for Arik. Also Aeroprofessionals is recruiting but by far the most ads are from Protec, and unless I'm blind I have never seen them before, and even now they seem to be doing only Arik Air.
It would not be a surprise to me if they are holding back a big portion of the salaries, especially now that there are many RJ folks out there that seem to be happy with minimal pay (any salary is good as long as it is more than the foodstamp wages paid in the US?)

 

[metrodriver]

Thanks for the info, metro. Although I know Africa to be a dangerous place, I have not been to that section of the world before

.

Africa is not by definition dangerous. There are some VERY dangerous places there, there are some others that are relatively safe. Nigeria is weird. There are Lagos and Port Harcourt that are very dangerous. In PH are a lot of kidnappings related to the oil business. Lagos is a 18 million people steaming pot where everything is possible. Abuja (the capital city) is supposed to be quite nice and relatively safe, just like Kano. If you take-off out of Lagos, fly west over Benin and 30 minutes later land in Accra, Ghana you enter a totally different world. Friendly people (who hate Nigerians), organized traffic, power that stays on, working traffic lights that are being obeyed, and even tourist tours. There are a few more countries in that corner that are not bad. On the east coast of Africa there are Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda where you can move around without much trouble.
As a white guy you will always stand out and automatically are a have-a-lot while there are a lot of have-not's around. In other words, an easy target. So apply a bit of common sense about where you go and preferably go with another person.
In many places a cell phone is a very desirable thing, so don't wear it obviously, same goes for camera's and money (don't stick your wallet in your backpocket) and limit the amount of money you carry on you .

Also remember that simple things that we take for granted are not always available. Also human decency standards are different. It is quite common to see a grass field being used as a toilet by several people. Not like the US where public toilets are being removed and nobody knows where to go to do their "business". A field and grass leaves are sufficient. Not just in Africa, everywhere outside the developed "first world".
Most cities are very dusty. Lot of animal traffic. Go around a corner and find yourself surrounded by a couple of hunderd sheep or goats on their way to become dinner. Stray dogs and cats everywhere. Open air markets on the side of the road that bring traffic to a standstill. Remember the mid-eighties Mercedes 200/300 series cars, of which you still see one once in a while in the States? In Lagos there is a car rental place that rents them. You see like 20 of them lined up and each one is in immaculate condition. Just unbelievable given the state of the rest of the vehicles on the road there.

 

[oceandude]

When I was there f/o made 8500 a month! No less then 6500 a month!!! the whoring has begun.... just keep bringing the bar down....ohhh... I would not go back there for 15000 a month! talk about a cr@p hole!

 

[Wes Mason]

Justs got the contract, the new pay is 5500 for fo and 8000 for cp. They called me the next day after applying. They most need people bad.

 

[oceandude]

They always need people! Turn over is super high! Protec is a shell company owned by Arik...

 

[airspeed]

My take on DNMM

Gents, i spent 3 months this year in lovley lagos. Having lived in India for close to two years i can tell you that lagos has some pros and definitley alot of cons. India i could walk around and feel safe, Lagos forget it, daytime not so bad as long as you know where the hell you are but nighttime FORGET IT. I stayed at a guest house about 10mins from the Sheraton hotel which IMO was a craphole for the money they were asking, and the food in the ENTIRE country SUCKS! Not all Nigeria is bad, ABuja is quite nice, and Kano is okay but lagos SUCKS! Now IMO again it was actually cleaner than India in most parts and the traffic was not as bad. I flew a CL300 for a guy who is VERY well connected so i never really expected any problems, we never had armed security either. Guys if your making a decision on Arik all i can tell you is that you gotta do what you gotta do. I do realize that by those that take jobs for peanuts and trust me 8500 a month in lagos IS PEANUTS your doing a diservice to the guy that gets a correct amount and for me in lagos on the CL300 was about 24K a month, granted it was short term but even for a B737NG Capt which i used to be in India (granted didnt make as much there on the 737 as i did the falcon!) i wouldnt take that gig unless it was atleast 12K a month. Sad to say for the airline guys, but the challengers, gulfstreams, and falcons will ALWAYS pay much more than any boeing or airbus. Do what you have to do and have NO regrets but trust me on this, WATCH YOUR SIX OVER THERE and DO NOT take the anti mozzie meds, it will kill ur liver. Instead get peacefull sleep or Deet and spray the hell out of anything thats less than 6 inches above the floor and for god sake dont wear shorts!!!

 

[Green]

Gents, i spent 3 months this year in lovley lagos. Having lived in India for close to two years i can tell you that lagos has some pros and definitley alot of cons. India i could walk around and feel safe, Lagos forget it, daytime not so bad as long as you know where the hell you are but nighttime FORGET IT. I stayed at a guest house about 10mins from the Sheraton hotel which IMO was a craphole for the money they were asking, and the food in the ENTIRE country SUCKS! Not all Nigeria is bad, ABuja is quite nice, and Kano is okay but lagos SUCKS! Now IMO again it was actually cleaner than India in most parts and the traffic was not as bad. I flew a CL300 for a guy who is VERY well connected so i never really expected any problems, we never had armed security either. Guys if your making a decision on Arik all i can tell you is that you gotta do what you gotta do. I do realize that by those that take jobs for peanuts and trust me 8500 a month in lagos IS PEANUTS your doing a diservice to the guy that gets a correct amount and for me in lagos on the CL300 was about 24K a month, granted it was short term but even for a B737NG Capt which i used to be in India (granted didnt make as much there on the 737 as i did the falcon!) i wouldnt take that gig unless it was atleast 12K a month. Sad to say for the airline guys, but the challengers, gulfstreams, and falcons will ALWAYS pay much more than any boeing or airbus. Do what you have to do and have NO regrets but trust me on this, WATCH YOUR SIX OVER THERE and DO NOT take the anti mozzie meds, it will kill ur liver. Instead get peacefull sleep or Deet and spray the hell out of anything thats less than 6 inches above the floor and for god sake dont wear shorts!!!

Great Post!