Are you required to log instruction given?

[FlyBieWire]

Are you required to log any and all instruction received.

 

[Ralgha]

Received or given? The flight instructor must sign the logbook of anyone he/she gives instruction to.

Logging instruction given is not required. The instructor must only keep a record of endorsements for solo flight and tests.

 

[charter dog]

Are you required to log any and all instruction received.

No, but...

If it isn't logged, it didn't happen! I presume from your profile that you are a student pilot.

Are you required to log instruction given?

Different question, different answer. As Ralgha has pointed out, the CFI is required by FAR to make an entry in your logbook for any instruction given.

Here is a link to FAR part 61.51, which is the regulation concerning pilot logbooks. Short version:

You must log all pilot time, instruction received (flight and ground) and instructor endorsements which would qualify you for any certificate, rating or operating privilege. So you only have to log it if it establishes that you meet eligibility or qualification requirements. For student pilots, The CFI normally makes all entries except for solo time.

The CFI giving the instruction normally makes an entry in the student logbook or other record after giving the instruction. This serves as a record of training received by the student. The CFI will also normally make a duplicate entry in their own and/or school records both to record their own time and to act as a redundant record. Smart CFIs keep accurate records in case you and/or your logbook are destroyed! (sick humor, I know) This acts as proof of your eligibility and that the CFI has given all training required for any currency, qualification or privilege. As a general rule, all flight time and training received should be logged.

I hope this answers your question. Enjoy these times!

Best,

 

[FlyBieWire]

Here is the better version of the question. I am not even a student pilot yet because I'm too young to even solo. I'm a 15-year old high school student but I know alot about flying.

So what about this, can I go out to the airport and teach an hour of Private Pilot ground school on something I know about? If not what stops me? Can I tell people to avoid flying through thunderstorms or avoid landing downwind or is that instructing without a license? Whether I tell people this in a class room or at a lunch table, what is the difference? Will the FAA do something to me if I do such things? I would think I could do all of these things but just not sign anything off as training given to satisfy some requirement. Or even if I did sign it off as training it just wouldn't count for anything I would guess. Now if the ground school was an FAA-approved Part 141 program that estabished a standard that every instructor would be a CFI or a ground instructor that would be different I suppose.

And to take this further, could I go up in someone's airplane and teach them how to operate their Garmin 430 or whatever? Is that giving instruction without a license. Will the FAA get me for this? (I have learned to operate the 430 by Garmin's on-line simulator.) Or what if I teach in a FTD or even a Gamin on-line GPS "Simulator," is that teaching without a license.

And in any case, do I have any need to keep a record of any instruction given?

What do you think?

 

[Ralgha]

Here is the better version of the question. I am not even a student pilot yet because I'm too young to even solo. I'm a 15-year old high school student but I know alot about flying.

So what about this, can I go out to the airport and teach an hour of Private Pilot ground school on something I know about? If not what stops me? Can I tell people to avoid flying through thunderstorms or avoid landing downwind or is that instructing without a license? Whether I tell people this in a class room or at a lunch table, what is the difference? Will the FAA do something to me if I do such things? I would think I could do all of these things but just not sign anything off as training given to satisfy some requirement. Or even if I did sign it off as training it just wouldn't count for anything I would guess. Now if the ground school was an FAA-approved Part 141 program that estabished a standard that every instructor would be a CFI or a ground instructor that would be different I suppose.

And to take this further, could I go up in someone's airplane and teach them how to operate their Garmin 430 or whatever? Is that giving instruction without a license. Will the FAA get me for this? (I have learned to operate the 430 by Garmin's on-line simulator.) Or what if I teach in a FTD or even a Gamin on-line GPS "Simulator," is that teaching without a license.

And in any case, do I have any need to keep a record of any instruction given?

What do you think?

There is nothing stoping you from doing any of that. The problem for the student is that none of that instruction counts toward anything, be it ratings, certificates, wings program, etc.

The problem for you is that if someone you "taught" screws up or crashes, they can blame you, resulting in lawsuits, and other fun legal stuff, all of which you would have no defense against.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The problem for you is that if someone you "taught" screws up or crashes, they can blame you, resulting in lawsuits, and other fun legal stuff, all of which you would have no defense against.

Ralgha: I really think the CFI would be in more trouble legally if his student screws up from bad instruction. The non-pilot, non-CFI like "flybiewire" is in no trouble what-so-ever. After all, he is no more legally responsible than a line boy telling a pilot how to fly and entering that training in his log as ground instruction. If the pilot listens to him and kills himself, no one is going ot sue the line boy because it was the pilot who was totally wrong to listen to him. Now if the line boy was a CFI and gave incorrect instruction and then the pilot killed himself, the CFI/line boy would be held much more liable, or so I think.

 

[Ralgha]

After all, he is no more legally responsible than a line boy telling a pilot how to fly and entering that training in his log as ground instruction. If the pilot listens to him and kills himself, no one is going ot sue the line boy because it was the pilot who was totally wrong to listen to him.

That would be incredibly illegal since that line boy is (presumably) not an instructor and that training entered in his log is falsified by the line boy. The line boy could be sued, and probably much worse.

Unless the "students" signed a written document stating that they are fully aware that the "teacher" is not authorized by the FAA, or associated with any training program (such as a course put on by Garmin), that "teacher" would probably be in some hot water under our current legal system of sue anyone for anything. They wouldn't have insurance to help them out either.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I use the line boy as an example of a person who is not a CFI. Anyone can give anyone instruction or discussion or whatever. It's just what counts for certification that matters. If someone goes up in your airplane and tells you how to operate the GPS, that is not a violation of anything. Even if the pilot puts in this own log, "Training flight with Lineboy on GPS operation." And if that person gets lost on a following flight it's the pilot's fault entirely. No blame on the lineboy unless he is a CFI and enters that in the log or he represents himself as a CFI and the pilot believes him.

You do not have to be a CFI to give instruction, you only have to be an instructor to give instruction as is required for certification and as required under Part 61/141.

Another example to consider is acrobatic instruction. Many acro instructors are not CFI's nor do they need to be either. Yet they can certainly indicate that they gave instruction in various acrobatic maneuvers such as loops, spins, rolls, etc. Consider the airlines too. I know of various ground instructors who are not FAA certified in any way yet they teach systems and procedrues.

 

[Ralgha]

I use the line boy as an example of a person who is not a CFI. Anyone can give anyone instruction or discussion or whatever. It's just what counts for certification that matters. If someone goes up in your airplane and tells you how to operate the GPS, that is not a violation of anything. Even if the pilot puts in this own log, "Training flight with Lineboy on GPS operation." And if that person gets lost on a following flight it's the pilot's fault entirely. No blame on the lineboy unless he is a CFI and enters that in the log or he represents himself as a CFI and the pilot believes him.

You do not have to be a CFI to give instruction, you only have to be an instructor to give instruction as is required for certification and as required under Part 61/141.

Another example to consider is acrobatic instruction. Many acro instructors are not CFI's nor do they need to be either. Yet they can certainly indicate that they gave instruction in various acrobatic maneuvers such as loops, spins, rolls, etc. Consider the airlines too. I know of various ground instructors who are not FAA certified in any way yet they teach systems and procedrues.

I thought you meant the line boy signed that ground training given, since that's what has to happen for it to be entered as training received. If the pilot just made a note of it, then that's fine, but it's not training received.

Quite true that you don't have to be a CFI, I've already said that. I'm also saying that in this day and age, you open yourself up to a lawsuit. Juries know nothing about the regulations, and the blame could easily be assigned to the line boy, or anyone else who was "teaching".

The airlines are a different story completely. While they may not be CFIs, they HAVE met the company requirements for providing training, which HAVE been approved by the FAA.

 

[nosehair]

I would think I could do all of these things but just not sign anything off as training given to satisfy some requirement. Or even if I did sign it off as training it just wouldn't count for anything I would guess. Now if the ground school was an FAA-approved Part 141 program that estabished a standard that every instructor would be a CFI or a ground instructor that would be different I suppose.

And to take this further, could I go up in someone's airplane and teach them how to operate their Garmin 430 or whatever? Is that giving instruction without a license. Will the FAA get me for this? (I have learned to operate the 430 by Garmin's on-line simulator.) Or what if I teach in a FTD or even a Gamin on-line GPS "Simulator," is that teaching without a license.

And in any case, do I have any need to keep a record of any instruction given?

What do you think?

You are correct in your thinking. And if you are really as young as you say, and you alredy have this concept, you can change the world!

New-Age Computer Geeks can become Systems Instructors in these NewHigh Techie Airplanes with no "licensing" requirements by FAA (as yet).
There's lots of New Knowledge not required in FAA Testing, so the teacher need not be licensed.

Or keep records of "instruction given", was that your question?