Are you flying on a fuel savings program? New Theory

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not aware of the BK carriers operating thier jets under a fuel savings profile; i.e. most economic.

Therefore, if fuel is one of the most expensive costs why not?

Theory: Management likes the high cost of gas so they can hammer labor.

Can labor state: We'll take concessions when you show us a max save fuel program.

Yes, no, conspiracy?

Discuss

 

[DGdaPilot]

Well American and Eagle are into this type of thing.

 

[imacdog]

Comair recently started doing this.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well American and Eagle are into this type of thing.

Not in BK. But copy that!

 

[FlyingSig]

Delta's been on a fuel kick since I was hired in 2000 but even since last year FMS Econ numbers have been adjusted, contingency fuel eliminated, and even an exemption granted for alternates (less then the 1-2-3)... not sure what else they can do with the exception of the price of gas...

 

[Knob]

At XJT, we have been doing this for quite some time, such as single eng. taxi, minimal APU usage and coming down on a 4 degree gs. Guess it hasn't been enough!

 

[DX Jake]

Hey Rez...

If you were going from BWI to LIT and then on to LAS... and fuel in BWI was $1.72... and in LIT was $2.26... would you load up in Baltimore, or bend over in Little Rock ???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey Rez...

If you were going from BWI to LIT and then on to LAS... and fuel in BWI was $1.72... and in LIT was $2.26... would you load up in Baltimore, or bend over in Little Rock ???

As an Air Line Pilot I can't/won't make these types of decisions.... I can fly the aircraft in an [more] effecient way....

 

[ReverseSensing]

As an Air Line Pilot I can't/won't make these types of decisions.... I can fly the aircraft in an [more] effecient way....

Just curious, but why can't/won't you make tankering decisions?

 

[FlyingSig]

Just curious, but why can't/won't you make tankering decisions?

When I was at CoEx we could put on anywhere between a min and max number at the Capt's discression (and you could always coordinate with the dispatcher for more). Wasn't really tankering, more of a "pad" when you knew weather/traffic would require more then release numbers.

At Delta, the fueler just puts on what the paperwork says... Capt. doesn't order the gas. Dispatch will build in contingency fuel into the release numbers and they also do a pretty good job of tankering (fill up in ATL vs DCA/LGA) but the Capt really has no say over how much gas gets put on unless he wants more in which case that generates new paperwork and a new fuel order.

It's a whole different world then GA/Corp. flying. Instead of burning brain cells flight planning, you burn brain cells figuring out if you're legal to go (paperwork, MEL's, weather, alt. etc...)

 

[PCL_128]

Just curious, but why can't/won't you make tankering decisions?

The dispatcher decides the fuel load before we ever arrive at the airplane, and the fuel is usually already loaded and the fueler long gone. If I want more fuel, then I can certainly call the dispatcher and ask for more, but I haven't seen a reason to. If the company wants to keep the fuel loads low, then I've got no problem with that. I'll just divert whenever the fuel gets down to "decision fuel" and that's that. I don't make a habit of argueing with dispatchers over fuel loads.

 

[Flyerjosh]

Hey Rez...

If you were going from BWI to LIT and then on to LAS... and fuel in BWI was $1.72... and in LIT was $2.26... would you load up in Baltimore, or bend over in Little Rock ???

Wow... wish I could find JetA for 1.72 or 2.26! Last time I fueled up it was to the order of about 4.60/gallon.

In the corporate world, we will tank a reasonable amount of fuel with us if the price varies more than about $.50/gallon. Of course this is dicated by how much fuel we can take in relation to the payload and performance/weight limits.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Interesting responses. At QX, the Captain orders the fuel prior to each leg. The release has Min Total, and Optimum, but no max. Optimum kind of takes tankering into account, but is always conservative so as to protect projected payload. Oftentimes the optimum amount is still a little too little to round-trip an outstation in the 200. There is a big push on at QX to put more tools in DX and on the flightdeck to optimize tankering opportunities out of hubs. With the 200 being so zero fuel weight limited, a good deal of mental energy is expended on the flightdeck to carry enough fuel to roundtrip expensive stations, without bumping revenue.

The company even recently stopped requiring irregularity reports if fuel loads bumped revenue.

 

[X-Wind]

There is a price to pay for Tankering...anyone know this gouge?

 

[Cardinal]

There is a price to pay for Tankering...anyone know this gouge?

Varies a little by airplane, but an accepted figure for a jet is 5% per hour.

That seems a litte high to me. Our dispatch software puts a number on the release, i.e., Additional 1000 lbs takeoff weight will burn 40 lbs. 40 per 1000 is what we'd see on a 2 hour leg, so the penalty for an A319 might be closer to 2 or 3% at lower weights.

 

[X-Wind]

Thanks for the info.....The airplane I'm flying is a G100. You mentioned software, do you know if the fuel savings plan is integrated in the FOS charter software? If not, do you know where I can get such fuel savings software?