Are we judging PCL pilots fairly?

[Waylon]

It has been a full day since the NWA mishap in MSP and nobody is bashing the pilots. If PCL would of been envolved there would of been a thread 10 pages long bashing the pilots. God forbid we would ever doubt a mainline pilots jugement or decision making abilities. If you know you have a hydraulic problem why not get towed to the gate? Last leg? My point here is lets judge all pilot groups the same and not just bash on the PCL pilot group.

 

[kmox29]

You're absolutely right. I think PCL (or any regional) makes an easy target for some. They chalk it up to inexperienced, young pilots. It's an easy out. However, you do have to admit that PCL has had its share of excitement in the last year.

 

[405]

I guess if an NWA crew bends an airframe up it's okay simply because they're mainline. If 9E does it, it's a complete safety issue where the FAA needs to get involved, ground the airline and review training issues. What a load of B.S.

 

[wil]

Mainline has the $ and the union on its side. Oh, these same mainline pros will need a "wind check" for this post to respond. Cheers-

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I still think that the DC-9 running into the bus was Pinnacles fault.

Pinnacle parks right by there. They were distracted by a pinnacle crew hot refueling and trying to correct the situation. Subsequently, they didnt noticed the hydraulic failure and careened into the bus.

 

[jetflier]

It has been a full day since the NWA mishap in MSP and nobody is bashing the pilots. If PCL would of been envolved there would of been a thread 10 pages long bashing the pilots. God forbid we would ever doubt a mainline pilots jugement or decision making abilities. If you know you have a hydraulic problem why not get towed to the gate? Last leg? My point here is lets judge all pilot groups the same and not just bash on the PCL pilot group.

I couldn't agree more....safety first.

 

[AnimalTale]

Accidents happen. And other pilots should not make fun. But I think this is the reason.


2 accidents within a couple months at PCL (FL410--god rest their souls and sliding off the rwy in MKE) , have been ((I think)) attributed to pilot errror (Again, I am not sure). People correlate this to the low time pilots hired at PCL recently from Gulfstream, thus making fun. Even though it is a silly comparison.

At NWA the accident was due to a hydraulic failure on the DC9...Aircraft malfunction.

My opinion

 

[RampTower]

Then wtf are you guys waiting for! Bash away! NWA got friggin owned

(well intended sarcasm of course.....)

Hope the injured people recovery fast, but it's still early to monday morning quarterback. if the hydraulic problem was a known issue before landing, why did they decide to taxi after they landed?? I'm sorry but thats ground for automatic Flightinfo.com bashing.

 

[8HourPilot]

What is the ratio of PCL/NWA/MES current open investigations? That should end all the questions, and this thread.

 

[stb]

At NWA the accident was due to a hydraulic failure on the DC9...Aircraft malfunction.
My opinion

Crews did a great job getting the plane stopped on the runway. (Training, pilot skill) But they will get hammered by the FAA for trying to taxi to the gate if they knew they had hydraulic failures. (Experience, Judgement)
Should have been tugged off the runway to the gate.

Will be interesting to see the crews duty day, experience etc.

New 5 minute training module during ground school for brake accumulators. 6 -8 brake applictions, do not taxi off runway during a hydraulic failure. All together ....6-8 brake applictions........

 

[kmox29]

For what it's worth (and looking at the source..grain of salt): The local news media in MSP was reporting that the DC9 has two hydraulic systems tied into their respective engines. According to the news, FAA noted no hydraulic fluid in the right system. On the way to the gate, they believe the crew might have shut down the left engine (as is fairly SOP) thus rendering the DC9 with no hydraulic pressure/fluid.


As I said...Local News, but interesting.

 

[Inconceivable]

An EXA crew did this in a Saab around eight years ago in MEM. That Captain is still a senior MSP CRJ CA.

 

[100LL... Again!]

When very experienced pros screw up, it is easier to forgive.
When trainees masquerading as pilots screw up, it's much harder to extend the same benefit of doubt.

 

[SPIM]

I think the only reason PNCL gets bashed is for having so many gulfstream pilots in their ranks. This is ridiculous since the FAA scrutinizes both GA and PNCL more than your average carrier based on the average time of the flight crews. Mistakes are made because pilots are human. If you look that the accident probability charts the risk increases again with very high time pilots since they start to get over confident. The fact that a crew would taxi an aircraft, that has problems with a system directly linked to stopping an aircraft, on a busy airport like MSP clearly exemplifies this over confidence.

 

[PCL_128]

When very experienced pros screw up, it is easier to forgive.
When trainees masquerading as pilots screw up, it's much harder to extend the same benefit of doubt.

What airline do you work for anyway? I don't remember you ever saying.

 

[Beantown]

PCL gets bashed because they are on the regional board and NW is on the Major board. It's pretty much that simple in my mind. People over here are a bunch of whiners and will jump at the chance to put someone else down. (minus Jetblue) is happens very little over there. I mean look at the race to the bottom at the majors in terms of contracts yet you rarely see people bashing each other over it like you do here.

Thats my take, for little its worth. -Bean

 

[100LL... Again!]

Since you asked, I have worked my way up with over a decade as a professional pilot, and have worked for two different airlines, then leaving the airlines for corporate work since 911.

I don't see any reason why it matters which airlines. I got there the hard way. Without a checkbook.

 

[Nindiri]

Very true. People on the Major board actually act like grownups, except for a few cranky types who come to the Regional board to wallow in the mud.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't see any reason why it matters which airlines.

It matters because so many people are hypocritical on this subject. I think it's safe to assume that you worked for a regional airline that had some low-time pilots flying there. Comair, ASA, Alpine, Colgan, Ameriflight, and many other airlines are or where PFT at some time and hired lots of low-time PFTers. Are all those airlines dangerous and unprofessional also? How many PFTers at Comair walked out and struck Comair for 89 days?

Many pilots PFT when they are new to the industry and don't know any better. As they get more experience in the industry they realize how it hurts all of us. I speak from personal experience on this as you know. Am I dangerous and unprofessional because I PFTed years ago when I was a newbie and ignorant of how things work in this industry? I think not. And neither are the many good pilots at Pinnacle that PFTed in the past when they didn't know any better.

 

[Lear70]

When very experienced pros screw up, it is easier to forgive.
When trainees masquerading as pilots screw up, it's much harder to extend the same benefit of doubt.

Bullsh*t.

One set of regulations, one aircraft full of people to kill if you f*ck it up, therefore one set of standards, I don't give a rat's a*s whether you're a mainline 747 Captain or a C150 Aerobat pilot for Aunt Matilda's 121 scheduled service out of Bumfu*k, Australia to Queensland, everyone should be held to the same level of professionalism and bear the same scrutiny in the wake of an incident/accident.

Every airline has their problems, our corporate culture and their approach to safety (or lack thereof) is a definite problem, but I also find it VERY interesting that no one jumped out of the weeds to start throwing stones at the NWA crew, although I'm glad they didn't - Monday Morning Quarterbacking or the normal Flightinfo mudfest wouldn't help solve a thing about this accident.

 

[Cardinal]

What is the ratio of PCL/NWA/MES current open investigations? That should end all the questions, and this thread.

I included Mesa for comparison purposes.

Northwest: 2
MHT Collision:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040714X00969&key=1
DTW Collision
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/D_0511_N.txt

Pinnacle: 2
MSP Excursion
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050317X00323&key=1
FL410 Flameout
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20041015X01633&key=1

Mesaba: 1
DTW Collision (Under Pushback)
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040226X00241&key=1

Mesa: 3
AUS Evacuation
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050104X00010&key=1
PHL Collision
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20041109X01790&key=1
PHX Trim
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030624X00941&key=1