Any PC12NG guys here?

[rjacobs]

I had a thread going a few weeks ago about a potential first airplane for a corporation. I got tons of great info out of it. I finally had a meeting with the CEO and this is kind of where I am.

Jets are way to expensive for this company(even though a CJ2 or CJ3 would be perfect for him) and trying to talk him into a KA200(which again would be a great airplane) is a chore because its 400 bucks more an hour and thats all he looks at no matter what I tell him about two engine vs. single engine safety. All he looks at is the money and can the airplane do what he needs(2-6 people on trips less than 1000 miles around the midwest). I decided to offer the PC12NG as basically a minimum airplane and I would rather get him into it than nothing at all.

I am not opposed to the PC12NG, but I want to do as much research as possible into it before I get further into this. I have been searching for stuff, but most everything is older and doesnt necessarily pertain to the NG model. I know the fuel burn basically. What kind of gotcha's does the NG model have? What are people seeing for insurance prices? How is MX on it? MX hog or pretty simple? What kind of realistic range are people seeing? Anything else you want to use to talk me into it I am open to hear everything.

 

[SansPlane]

If you are serious - then start here: http://www.westair.com/

 

[rjacobs]

If you are serious - then start here: http://www.westair.com/

Not at all what I am looking for. Not that they couldnt answer my questions for me, but I dont want a sales pitch or anything like that.

 

[SansPlane]

If you think that all sales people do is pitch, then you probably should not be meddling in the purchase of an aircraft.

As far as I can tell, Pilatus has done a pretty good job of building and selling airplanes. I doubt they have done so with shifty sales folks and unreliable data.

If you are serious, give them a call.

 

[rjacobs]

If you are serious - then start here: http://www.westair.com/

If you think that all sales people do is pitch, then you probably should not be meddling in the purchase of an aircraft.

As far as I can tell, Pilatus has done a pretty good job of building and selling airplanes. I doubt they have done so with shifty sales folks and unreliable data.

If you are serious, give them a call.

Im not disagreeing with you. There is a dealership/service center at my home airport I have already been chatting with so I am covered there.

Just was wanting some real world observations vs. a guy trying to sell me the plane/MX program, no matter how genuine he might be.

 

[rcsimpson]

From what I've seen from a buddy that flies multiple versions of KAs and several Pilatus versions, the PC-12 is about the most economical flying machine around. It basically does on ONE engine what the King Air does with two and you are burning about 50-60 gph in the low/mid flight levels.

I'm sure the NG has the -45 ailerons upgrade, not sure. You'll want that, as the older model flew like a dump truck. Newer servo tab version is much lighter on controls.

 

[steveg]

I operated one for about a year. Great airplane, loved it. The only problems we had were with the avionics, it was a new NG. They are pretty expensive to purchase, cheap to operate though. If it was me, I'd look at a -47 model, not an NG. the avionics were cool, but brought some issues and they are really overkill on that plane. Save some money and skip the NG's is my opinion.

 

[TimsKeeper]

pc vs king air

Your owner is worried about $400 an hour in operating costs but will pay a couple million dollar premium in purchase price for the Pilatus over a 10 year old King Air 200. Something doesn't make sense in this equation.

I'm not debating whether the Pilatus is more or less desirable (safe?) than a King Air (I'd want the King Air, but that's just an opinion). If he doens't want to get the King Air just because of the higher operating costs he doesnt have the full financial picture.

In a positive light I know someone who has been flying the Pilatus for years and loves the airplane (although I bet he'd rather be in a jet!).

2nd Engine > Fancy avionics

 

[rjacobs]

I operated one for about a year. Great airplane, loved it. The only problems we had were with the avionics, it was a new NG. They are pretty expensive to purchase, cheap to operate though. If it was me, I'd look at a -47 model, not an NG. the avionics were cool, but brought some issues and they are really overkill on that plane. Save some money and skip the NG's is my opinion.

What avionics issues exactly did you have? I talked to the pilatus dealer this week and he said they are just starting to roll out update 7(I think it was) to the avionics which would allow coupled VNAV, future EVS capability, and some other new features as well as fixing some small issues(he didnt mention exactly what).

Your owner is worried about $400 an hour in operating costs but will pay a couple million dollar premium in purchase price for the Pilatus over a 10 year old King Air 200. Something doesn't make sense in this equation.

I'm not debating whether the Pilatus is more or less desirable (safe?) than a King Air (I'd want the King Air, but that's just an opinion). If he doens't want to get the King Air just because of the higher operating costs he doesnt have the full financial picture.

In a positive light I know someone who has been flying the Pilatus for years and loves the airplane (although I bet he'd rather be in a jet!).

2nd Engine > Fancy avionics

Looking at Pro-Line 21 King Airs for the most part due to better resale prices down the road. For some reason he is not so worried about purchase price, but he is stuck on the hourly operating cost since both airplanes realistically have the same performance. I dont understand it either. I am trying to steer him in the direction of the king air and telling him its a million bucks + cheaper to buy yet costs 400 more an hour to operate for some reason doesnt compute in his head. I told him that its something like 2+ years of DOC just in the cost savings of buying a million dollar cheaper airplane. I have only had one meeting so far with the guy so we really havent gone too indepth on the actual airplanes yet, I just gave him basic DOC numbers.

 

[matchthehatch]

For some reason he is not so worried about purchase price, but he is stuck on the hourly operating cost since both airplanes realistically have the same performance. I dont understand it either. I am trying to steer him in the direction of the king air and telling him its a million bucks + cheaper to buy yet costs 400 more an hour to operate for some reason doesnt compute in his head.

Maybe he is less concerned about purchase price because of the bonus depreciation bill. It makes this year a good one for the purchase of aircraft. Obviously, operating expenses are just that - expenses and not a capital investment.