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Answers for Anthony at Flight Options

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Frac Rat

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Posts
19
Earlier this evening, on the Flight Options company board, one of our junior SIC's submitted a post with a couple of interesting questions. I did not feel free to answer them on the company board for fear of retaliation by FLOPS mgt, so I am posting my answers here in the hope that he and others will read them.

First question:"Did we get screwed by by the NMB notification coming now?" (he was referring to today's company email that due to the upcoming union vote, we're not getting the raise that mgt was promising us on the 31st)
Answer: Welcome to the way FLOPS does business. There was NEVER any intention on their part to give us ANYTHING. Mgt has known since before Christmas that the union would be filing with the NMB in early Jan. (it was publicly announced on this board and in other places). That's why we got that email saying that they "needed more time" to work on our benefits package and extended the rollout date 'till Jan. 31. If FLOPS mgt wanted to give us industry standard wages, they could have done it the same day as Citation Shares, or any time since then. In a nutshell, this answer is NO.

Second question: "Would it not have made more sense to wait until the revised compensation and domicile policy came out by the end of January?"
Answer: If the union would have waited until the end of Jan, then mgt. would have decided that they "needed more time" to work out the details and extended the rollout date to Feb. 30. And so on. And so on.

Last question: "I have concerns that if the union gets voted in that it will take years before anything changes (4 years for Netjets). What motivation will the company have at that point?

Answer: What motivation will the company have to change things for the better if the union vote vote fails and the union threat goes away? Anthony, I know you have only been here about 3 months, so you haven't gotten the chance to experience the screwing that the rest of us have gotten over the past 2 years, but I tell you sincerely, if the union threat goes away, we aint seen nothin yet!!
You are right, it may take a long time to get our first contract put together and signed, but now that we are in the "laboratory period" (as Mr Tyler called it) they can't take anything more away, either.

If anyone reading this post knows Anthony M. at FLOPS, would you please tell him about this thread? And Anthony, if you read this, I hope it helps you to understand our situation. I wish you the best of luck in your decision.
the Rat
 
Yo Rat your safe at the ASAP board, there are 385 FLOPS pilots signed up on that board. Your just as safe there as you are here.
 
It took 4 years at NJA only due to the inept leadership in our former local 284. Since the inception of the highly qualified and motivated local 1108, it actually only 8 months-negotiations resumed in Feb '05-until we got a huge improvement to our overall lifestyle and compensation package.

I understand the reluctance of anyone to join the group based upon the last local, but the new one is far superior and willing to share a vast wealth of knowledge and experience with any and all interested. If nothing else, at least you'll have seniority rights almost at once. Just ask the EJM guys, some were quite senior, that were let go at the whim of the company. Ask the Flex and RTA guys that were let go, again some quite senior.

Bottom line is it will take extreme dedication and perserverence on any group to hang tough and fight the good fight. What have you got to lose? If you're not satified, you can always decertify or form your own union. The dues argument is ridiculous. Most if not all NJA pilots far surpassed their dues with grievance awards alone. If you expect to profit from the benevolence of management, you're wasting your time.
 
dime line said:
Yo Rat your safe at the ASAP board, there are 385 FLOPS pilots signed up on that board. Your just as safe there as you are here.


He was referring to the FLOPS Company pilot message board, and no, it is NOT safe to post there.

The Union message board, located at http://www.ibt1108.org IS safe to post with about 400 Options pilots registered, and only pilots on the seniority board have access to it. Management pilots excluded.




LX

Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
 
Not true. We have restricted no pilot other than Flight Options management from the board. And we know that even they have access to the site through pro-management pilot moles, which is fine.

We have nothing to hide from our Flight Options pilots, but we do offer a safe place for pilots to post, unlike the company's board.




LX

Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
 
Last edited:
No. You'll jusy threaten to ban them from the site if they continue to post anything that isn't within your agenda.
 
Actually you and MAYBE one other person are the only pilot who's had a problem there, HawkerCpt, and it had nothing to do with our agenda - you on more than one occasion chose to violate the IBT's rules for posting in their forums - ie, the name calling of individual pilots and personal attacks against them for their views.... you are welcome to continue posting there all you want, say whatever you want, as long as you follow the same rules we all have to follow in regards to respecting our other pilots who post there as well. You have NOT been banned from the forums.




LX

Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
 
But the rules are different dependent on who's side your on. I am not "pro management" nor "pro union". I have just questions of boths agenda's. Your all star IBT team can however post anything they want about anyone they want. As soon as I call a spade a spade, I get the "hey, stop that now" letter. It's extremely biased and not designed to be informative. Only to help spread your own form of propaganda. No different than the Options management.

As I've read on another post.

There are 100 die hard union guys, 100 die hard management guys. The rest of us have to attempt to dig through all of the "male cow feces" being spewed from both sides. Try and find some substance. Determine what direction is in the best interest of US and OUR families.
 
It wasn't that you called a spade a spade, it was the language you chose against a pilot's views. You attacked another pilot, not his views, and we told you to knock it off. End of story. It had nothing to do with your views, stop trying to make it appear that way. Everyone's views are respected, even yours. That doesn't mean you won't get arguments about the views you may choose to post. Debating is fine. Attacking someone with vulgar name calling for posting their opinion, is not. That's the last I'll say about it.




LX

Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
 
hawkercpt

You called someone an idiot that had done nothing to you. How is that productive conversation to "Determine what direction is in the best interest of US and OUR families." Looks like you dont have the exclusive, I can also call a spade a spade.
 
You guys are right. I am so sorry. How could I have been so blind. Thank you.
 
choppengruven said:
You called someone an idiot that had done nothing to you. How is that productive conversation to "Determine what direction is in the best interest of US and OUR families." Looks like you dont have the exclusive, I can also call a spade a spade.

None of this is "productive conversation" guys. Let's get back to Anthony's questions. I think they were answered well, but think we need to explain to Anthony the details of the NJA negotiations, to help clarify his last question.

After 3+ years of contract negotiations the NJA MEC presented a TA to their pilots. The TA was FAR inferior to what the pilots were being led to believe they were going to get. Pay was subpar, backpay was almost non-existant, scope was bad, etc. That TA got voted down by 90+% (not sure of the actual number. Can you imagine that, Anthony? Our pilots being over 90% united? I can and it feels good.

After the miserable TA was voted down, it became apparent that some of the MEC members were in the pockets of management, we've lovingly come to know them as "Kool-Aid Drinker." The pilots, as a united workforce, voted to oust the MEC and vote in new members. The old MEC was easily defeated by the new MEC (Strong Union). From that date I do beleive it was less than a year before NJA got their stellar and industry changing TA. In that year they further proved the unity of their workforce and held a strike vote that passed again over the 90% mark. This is what some believe to have turn the tides (in less than a year) to bring managment to the realization that they couldn't buy their pilots for peanuts anymore.

This is why many of us at FlOps beleive an Options Strong Union is the way to go. I think that with the right people in place we too can have a contract in about a year. Plus, we're not going to be trying to change the industry like NJA had to, we only want a fair and balanced (credit FOX News) contract to compare ourselves with the rest of the industry. We won't be asking for the moon, we'll be asking for what our competitors are already getting. If NJA is making it work, and our (mis)management can't "figure out how NJ is doing this" then I don't think the problem lies with the pilots, it's the management.

Draw your own conclusions, Anthony, but I will be voting "yes" for 1108 and beleive I will be doing keg stands in celebration in 2007.
 
Oops!

Capn Vegetto, thanks for the correction, there is no Feb. 30th. I'm not so good at complicated technical things like calendars!
I meant to say Feb. 31st!
 
guido411

Thank you for guiding this post in the right direction. A union at FLOP's will most certainly be a positive thing. More importantly a contract is the answer. My yes vote is in.
 
The Rest Of The Story

Fraccapt & Hawkercpt

I don't want to derail this thread but I feel it necessary to set the record straight.

First with FracCapt, You were banned from the board for not providing you contact information that is a requirement from all of the pilots on the board. You gained access early after the board was set up and when I discovered we have no contact info for you, you were given the opportunity to rectify this situation and you chose not to be a member of the board under the established requirement we maintain. There was no personal issue with me or anyone else as you have attempted say. You are welcome back at any time all it takes is complying with the same requirements that the rest of us 396 pilots have had to comply with.

Hawkercpt, you have not been banned, you are the one that took the stand that you would no longer post on the board. You still go to the board and read the information there frequently. The reason that you were contacted about the content of your post is because of the abusive language you continued to use against other pilots that didn't not agree with you. You were not asked to comply with any rules that myself and the other 396 pilots that use the board have to comply with. You decision not to post on the board is you choice.
This is just to set the record straight and dispel in accurate account of these men's stories.
Sorry to interrupt the thread, please continue.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP
 

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