Another X-Country question

[rchcfi]

All,

Just wondering your take on my current situation. My new job as an Air Attack pilot sends me out for a full fuel cycle of 4 hours. I launch to a fire 60 miles away and orbit the scene for 3 hours. When I get home I log it as X-C time towards my ATP beacuse it is greater than 50 miles. However, should I only log the time spent enroute or the entire flight time.

Also, when I sometimes am up for 4 hours, I end up landing at a different field which can then be logged towards total X-C time. But again, is it time spent enroute or the entire flight? For instance, a flight from North Las Vegas to Mesquite, NV only takes .7 if flown in a straight line. However, my logbook is showing that segment as 3.7, 4.0, 2.8, etc. because of loitering time spent on the fire.

Any help appreciated!

Cheers,
RCHCFI

 

[WMUSIGPI]

you can log the entire flight as x/c

 

[nosehair]

Logging Time

Yes, you can. You can log the entire flight as x/c. Should you? I think not. The loiter time is not x/c, is it? Truth is what should be the governing factor. Not regulatory interprtation. Legal manipulation of poorly worded regulations is warping the character of our logbooks. Used to be that PIC time was exactly that. You were responsible for the flight if you were PIC. There was no such thing as dual and PIC...oh, wait! Yes, in some cases, like when I was giving instrument instruction to an instrument student in his own Bonanza, and I had very little time in a Bonanza, and we agreed he would be PIC and I was just being an instructor on specifics not involving the command and control of the airplane. That is acceptable, and that is the truth. But PIC in a new airplane/new environment when you don't have a clue what's going on? C'mon! But, yeah, you can log it PIC.
Same thing with the x/c. The definition of x/c in 61.1 includes (D) "Involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point." Seems like the intent of defining x/c is to include the fact that you are navigating to the destination. Once you get there, it would no longer be x/c. But that's just me. I'm bitter because we've lost the trust in what we put in our logbooks. They should reflect true values. If I have 50 hours of x/c, that should mean 50 hours of navigating. If I have 50 hours of PIC, that should mean 50 hours of making command decisions with consequences that reflect my own personal judgement.
Since you asked the question, you are probably looking for a confirmation that you can log it all. Do you want to show up with 500 hours x/c logged, but really have only 150 hours navigating, is that what you want?

 

[transpac]

Yes, in some cases, like when I was giving instrument instruction to an instrument student in his own Bonanza, and I had very little time in a Bonanza, and we agreed he would be PIC and I was just being an instructor on specifics not involving the command and control of the airplane. That is acceptable, and that is the truth.

How did you log this time? Dual given but not PIC?

 

[nosehair]

Somebody is paying attention

Nice shot, Transpac, you got me on that one. Actually, that was so long ago, I don't remember, but I'm sure it was PIC, since all instructing is PIC, but you're right - according to my soap box on the PIC thing, I shouldn't have logged that as PIC, should I?

 

[midlifeflyer]

C'mon! But, yeah, you can log it PIC.

So take an empty column and label it "Real PIC" and go to the current PIC column and re-label it "FAA PIC". Put the numbers you want to show your real experience in the "Real" column and the bogus PIC time that the FAA nevertheless says you can show them on an 8710 when you apply for your next certificate or rating in the FAA column.

A lot of pilots do that anyway for future employment reasons. Employers aren't much interested in the PIC time someone logged in her uncle's high performance, complex, pressurized airplane at FL270 in solid IMC the day after she got her private in a 152 either.

 

[gear_guy]

All,

Just wondering your take on my current situation. My new job as an Air Attack pilot sends me out for a full fuel cycle of 4 hours. I launch to a fire 60 miles away and orbit the scene for 3 hours. When I get home I log it as X-C time towards my ATP beacuse it is greater than 50 miles. However, should I only log the time spent enroute or the entire flight time.

Also, when I sometimes am up for 4 hours, I end up landing at a different field which can then be logged towards total X-C time. But again, is it time spent enroute or the entire flight? For instance, a flight from North Las Vegas to Mesquite, NV only takes .7 if flown in a straight line. However, my logbook is showing that segment as 3.7, 4.0, 2.8, etc. because of loitering time spent on the fire.

Any help appreciated!

Cheers,
RCHCFI

Let's face it...it doesnt matter what you decide to log. You can log microsoft flight sim time if you want. I would post this in the military forum and see what the other guys are logging. I am leaning towards logging the whole thing as XC.

As far as loiter time. That is obsurd. I would laugh if someone had that column in their logbook at an interview. Lets say I conduct a instrument proficiency flight that is >50 nm and begins and ends at the same airport and in the process I conduct 5 holds on my instrument approaches. Do I need to seperate all of the time I spent in holds? I think one could get really carried away with it. Just my opinion

 

[VNugget]

her uncle's high performance, complex, pressurized airplane at FL270 in solid IMC

You forgot to mentoin taildragger