Another safety pilot question

[vectorflyer]

This is not an instrument question.

Say a pilot is current in a Single Engine Land plane but not current in a Multi Engine Land plane (he/she has not done 3 to/landings in last 90 days). Can that pilot fly with another pilot who IS current in that plane and do the 3 takeoff and landings? Basically not going up with an instructor or going solo but being the "sole munipulator of the controls".
I'm curious if this qualified pilot can act as a safety pilot and not a "passenger".

Maybe the answer to this is obvious . . .

 

[AK47]

This is not an instrument question.

Say a pilot is current in a Single Engine Land plane but not current in a Multi Engine Land plane (he/she has not done 3 to/landings in last 90 days). Can that pilot fly with another pilot who IS current in that plane and do the 3 takeoff and landings? Basically not going up with an instructor or going solo but being the "sole munipulator of the controls".
I'm curious if this qualified pilot can act as a safety pilot and not a "passenger".

Maybe the answer to this is obvious . . .

Are you talking about 14 CFR 61.57 (a) ? Then you can't carry passengers, just go on your own and do the required three take-offs and landings.

If you are talking about the restriction that your FBO imposes on its fleet then you should fly with their approved instructor but you may not act as a PIC until you have done the required three takeoffs and landings.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, you may log your currency takeoffs and landings by being the sole manipulator of the controls with another pilot on board, so long as the other pilot is acting as the pilot in command of the flight. Nothing in 61.57(a) requires you to be acting as PIC when you do the takeoffs and landings being counted for currency, just that you be the only one handling the controls.

I have no idea what "safety pilot" has to do with this, at least in the sense that the FAR uses the term - a pilot that is required when another pilot is flying under the hood.

In your takeoff and landing scenario, the other pilot is PIC - you are the passenger.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I think I understand what you are asking. If you are not current in a multi-engine airplane, then you cannot have a passenger with you for those 3 takeoffs and landings.

You may act as safety pilot for your friend who is already landing current. You don't need to be current to act as safety pilot.

You cannot operate the controls during the landings because you would then be the pilot and your friend would be your passenger (unless your friend is an MEI). Also, sitting in the seat as safety pilot while your friend does 3 landings does not make you current on landings. You must be the only one controlling the airplane to log landings.

I hope I understood that right. Honestly, nobody really cares about something that miniscule...just go fly with your friend and get current.

 

[nosehair]

You cannot operate the controls during the landings because you would then be the pilot and your friend would be your passenger

Daytona, read Midlife's explanation. This is commonly misunderstood because of the regulatory wording.

And, also, the PIC cannot log that time, since he is not a required crewmember at that time.

You, as the PIC, can allow a passenger to manipulate the controls. This is true. There is no regulation saying that the PIC must be the one who is on the controls. That is the mis-understanding. Taking the controls, in and of itself, does not constitude becoming the pilot in command. If both pilots agree to that method, then it is, but not until it is made as a contract between both parties.

So, the reg requireing 3 takeoffs and landings in 90 days is as sole manipulator, not necessarily acting as pilot in command.

You can get current flying with a buddy who is PIC and lets you make 3 landings even if your medical has expired; you don't have to be acting as PIC to get current.

OF course, if anything happens, the PIC is responsible.
Keep that in perspective.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

No. What would the person manipulating the controls log the flight time as?

61.51(a)(2) requires the time be logged. Is he going to log it as a "passenger flying plane"? There is no exception for him to log it as SIC in this circumstance. That leaves the option of logging it as PIC, which he cannot.

 

[nosehair]

No. What would the person manipulating the controls log the flight time as?

61.51(a)(2) requires the time be logged. Is he going to log it as a passenger? The is no exception for him to log it as SIC in this circumstance. That leaves the option of logging it as PIC, which he cannot.

Yes, he would log it as PIC, in accordance with FAR 61.51(e)(1)(i)
You don't have to BE the PIC to log it as PIC. To me, that is crazy, but that is how the reg reads.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

Did I say no? I meant yes...

I stand corrected. Thanks nosehair...now where is that darn delete post button?

 

[Fearless Tower]

You don't have to BE the PIC to log it as PIC. To me, that is crazy, but that is how the reg reads.

Exactly.....took me a while to get it through my thick skull, but logging and acting PIC are two completely different things from a regulatory standpoint.