If you received the FOPA message on your bb and you click on the link the provided for the "FOPA flyer" and "FOPA handbook", the download file title will include the name of the person whose word processor they were written on. According to the seniority list, he's a medium seniority CW Beechjet capt, but the name kind of rings a bell to me. Isn't he one of the FLOPS ground instructors who does the company 135 and Company Manual ground training in Dallas?
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for those that didn't get the email....
What is eveyone view on this. I agree we need someone to represent us.....I think this would be a much better route than Teamsters.....
What is the Flight Options Pilot's Association?
The majority of Flight Option Pilots agree that a third party
communicator is needed between management and the pilot work force. There has
to be one point of contact from the pilots to management and vice versa.
The only option available for representation was the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters, a nation wide organization that represents 1.4
million people in different fields across different regions. Flight
Option pilots are not the Teamster's sole and primary interest, therefore,
the attention required by Flight Options' pilot work force will not be
met accordingly. The pilots need results quickly with a process
developed that will create fair working conditions, competitive compensation
and a communication process to voice concerns to management. This will
not be provided for a substantial amount of time with Teamster
representation. The Teamsters will only delay any improvements in working
conditions by prolonged negotiation techniques.
Therefore, a group of Flight Options Pilots have joined together to
create another option for representation. This group is initially
privately funded and consists of no management, solely Flight Option line
pilots. This organization is called the Flight Options Pilot's
Association, also called FOPA. The founders of FOPA will remain confidential
until the current IBT vote has finished being conducted in an effort to
avoid repercussions from management or the Teamsters. Once the Teamsters
vote fails, FOPA will announce its representatives and intentions to
management. This is also the first announcement to the management team
of Flight Options. The purpose of FOPA is not to create a wall between
management and the pilots but instead assist in organizing
self-representation and an effective communication channel between both parties.
How FOPA works?
DO NOT vote for Teamster representation. This may be achieved by NOT
calling the Teamster ballot telephone number. Once the Teamster ballot
has failed, the Flight Options Pilot's Association (FOPA) will announce
to management their intent to represent the pilot work force and the
names of the reps and their positions will be released. FOPA reps will
hold five temporary positions; one president and four pilot
representatives. The representatives will then begin formalization of FOPA per the
agenda and schedule discussed below. The initial plan after
announcement of the FOPA representatives will be to start a card campaign by
distributing cards to the pilot work force. During the distribution of
cards, Flight Options management may add or take away anything from the
flight crews. To prevent these changes, FOPA reps will approach
management with a copy of the Formalization Handbook and ask for an official
signed agreement to conduct operations within these guidelines. These
guidelines will solely establish practices that will protect FOPA
affiliates from termination or repercussions from management and give basic
guidelines to protect the pilot work force from mergers or acquisitions as
well as any deductions in current benefits or compensation. This
agreement will not change any current benefits and will be void upon a voted
contract by the pilot work force; these are just guidelines for
formalization of the FOPA organization. Upon managements agreement Bob Tyler
will be asked to release the compensation plan he wanted to announce
before the Teamsters filed with the NMB. If Bob Tyler will not announce
his plan or if no plan existed, FOPA will seek a new pay scale in
contract negotiations upon a passing vote with the NMB. If management will
not sign the Formalization Handbook agreement, FOPA founders will
continue with the card campaign and file with the NMB for an official vote
and except any repercussions imposed by Flight Option's management.
Upon receiving 35% of the pilot's cards, FOPA will file the application
with the NMB for an election. If the FOPA vote receives 50% plus 1 with
the NMB, FOPA will then officially represent the Flight Options pilot
work force. FOPA will then initiate a nomination period where any pilot
interested in representing the pilot workforce will be able to submit
their name. The applicants will complete the FOPA form 107, this form
will state their background and why they should represent the pilots.
The applicant information will be forwarded to the pilot group for
review. Upon the review deadline an election will be held within the pilot
workforce narrowing the representation group to 20 pilots (five pilots
per future fleet type) and 5 president applicants. Application forms
will be disseminated again. The pilot work force will then vote for 4
pilots to represent the pilot work force and one president to represent
FOPA and act as a liaison between FOPA and Flight Option's management.
Initially, the elected FOPA reps will represent a variety of fleet
types, as the company moves on with the go foreword plan of four aircraft
types the reps will stream line their representation to a specific type
of aircraft. The new FOPA representatives will then meet with the FOPA
founders to formalize the association and establish the pass over from
the founders to the elected positions. The association will then
compile a list of concerns and requests from the pilot work force. Once a
list of concerns is compiled the association will schedule an
orientation with management representatives. At this orientation, FOPA
representatives will begin negotiations with Flight Options management on a
formal contract. During negotiations, FOPA reps will take into
consideration all current competitive contracts.
continued to next post....
What is eveyone view on this. I agree we need someone to represent us.....I think this would be a much better route than Teamsters.....
What is the Flight Options Pilot's Association?
The majority of Flight Option Pilots agree that a third party
communicator is needed between management and the pilot work force. There has
to be one point of contact from the pilots to management and vice versa.
The only option available for representation was the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters, a nation wide organization that represents 1.4
million people in different fields across different regions. Flight
Option pilots are not the Teamster's sole and primary interest, therefore,
the attention required by Flight Options' pilot work force will not be
met accordingly. The pilots need results quickly with a process
developed that will create fair working conditions, competitive compensation
and a communication process to voice concerns to management. This will
not be provided for a substantial amount of time with Teamster
representation. The Teamsters will only delay any improvements in working
conditions by prolonged negotiation techniques.
Therefore, a group of Flight Options Pilots have joined together to
create another option for representation. This group is initially
privately funded and consists of no management, solely Flight Option line
pilots. This organization is called the Flight Options Pilot's
Association, also called FOPA. The founders of FOPA will remain confidential
until the current IBT vote has finished being conducted in an effort to
avoid repercussions from management or the Teamsters. Once the Teamsters
vote fails, FOPA will announce its representatives and intentions to
management. This is also the first announcement to the management team
of Flight Options. The purpose of FOPA is not to create a wall between
management and the pilots but instead assist in organizing
self-representation and an effective communication channel between both parties.
How FOPA works?
DO NOT vote for Teamster representation. This may be achieved by NOT
calling the Teamster ballot telephone number. Once the Teamster ballot
has failed, the Flight Options Pilot's Association (FOPA) will announce
to management their intent to represent the pilot work force and the
names of the reps and their positions will be released. FOPA reps will
hold five temporary positions; one president and four pilot
representatives. The representatives will then begin formalization of FOPA per the
agenda and schedule discussed below. The initial plan after
announcement of the FOPA representatives will be to start a card campaign by
distributing cards to the pilot work force. During the distribution of
cards, Flight Options management may add or take away anything from the
flight crews. To prevent these changes, FOPA reps will approach
management with a copy of the Formalization Handbook and ask for an official
signed agreement to conduct operations within these guidelines. These
guidelines will solely establish practices that will protect FOPA
affiliates from termination or repercussions from management and give basic
guidelines to protect the pilot work force from mergers or acquisitions as
well as any deductions in current benefits or compensation. This
agreement will not change any current benefits and will be void upon a voted
contract by the pilot work force; these are just guidelines for
formalization of the FOPA organization. Upon managements agreement Bob Tyler
will be asked to release the compensation plan he wanted to announce
before the Teamsters filed with the NMB. If Bob Tyler will not announce
his plan or if no plan existed, FOPA will seek a new pay scale in
contract negotiations upon a passing vote with the NMB. If management will
not sign the Formalization Handbook agreement, FOPA founders will
continue with the card campaign and file with the NMB for an official vote
and except any repercussions imposed by Flight Option's management.
Upon receiving 35% of the pilot's cards, FOPA will file the application
with the NMB for an election. If the FOPA vote receives 50% plus 1 with
the NMB, FOPA will then officially represent the Flight Options pilot
work force. FOPA will then initiate a nomination period where any pilot
interested in representing the pilot workforce will be able to submit
their name. The applicants will complete the FOPA form 107, this form
will state their background and why they should represent the pilots.
The applicant information will be forwarded to the pilot group for
review. Upon the review deadline an election will be held within the pilot
workforce narrowing the representation group to 20 pilots (five pilots
per future fleet type) and 5 president applicants. Application forms
will be disseminated again. The pilot work force will then vote for 4
pilots to represent the pilot work force and one president to represent
FOPA and act as a liaison between FOPA and Flight Option's management.
Initially, the elected FOPA reps will represent a variety of fleet
types, as the company moves on with the go foreword plan of four aircraft
types the reps will stream line their representation to a specific type
of aircraft. The new FOPA representatives will then meet with the FOPA
founders to formalize the association and establish the pass over from
the founders to the elected positions. The association will then
compile a list of concerns and requests from the pilot work force. Once a
list of concerns is compiled the association will schedule an
orientation with management representatives. At this orientation, FOPA
representatives will begin negotiations with Flight Options management on a
formal contract. During negotiations, FOPA reps will take into
consideration all current competitive contracts.
continued to next post....
FOPA Schedule:
FOPA will begin distributing cards for a 35% collection to the NMB -
March 6, 2006
Pilots apply to be FOPA reps - April 6, 2006
Pilots elect preliminary applicants - April 17, 2006 thru April 20,
2006
Pilots vote for final FOPA reps - May 1, 2006 thru May 4, 2006
Announcement of FOPA reps- May 8, 206
FOPA reps conduct orientation meeting - May 15, 2006. FOPA reps meet
with management at end of June, 2006.
This schedule is a proposal and dates may vary due to Teamster
activity. However, the time line for FOPA agreements is within 6 months of
being voted as the representation of Flight Option pilots, which is
excessively less than any Teamster contract negotiation. It may also take
longer than 30 days to complete a card campaign; however, this is the
initial goal of FOPA.
Benefits for choosing FOPA:
-One voice from pilot to management. One point of contact from
management to the
pilots.
-No drawn out negotiation between Teamsters and Flight Options
management
-Benefits and compensation packages will be created quicker
-Represented by line pilots that pilots will elect with no outside
political influence.
-Each fleet will have a point of contact to voice their opinion.
-NO initiation dues or expected donations to the organization, unlike
the Teamsters
- Southwest Airlines Pilot's Association (SWAPA) is an exceptional
union organization and is admired by many associations across the country.
The working relationship between management and the pilots is a model
for how FOPA intends to conduct operations.
FOPA dues:
Pilots will not pay dues until a contract has been voted on and
approved by the pilot work force. Pilots will also not have to pay any
initiation donations to FOPA. Dues will be collected at 1 percent of a
pilot's salary. The dues collected by FOPA will be placed into a banking
account and all account activity will be accessible by the pilot work
force. Dues collected will pay for the FOPA web site, attorney on
retainer fees, misc. office expenses, representative compensation and
additional costs occurred. Dues paid to FOPA will be solely for FOPA activity.
Unlike the Teamsters who use YOUR 1.5% dues for all their other
interests.
FOPA and Flight Options Management:
Flight Option's management has NO involvement in FOPA. The founders of
FOPA are not management and are line pilots that wish to have a long
term career with the company. This email is not from Flight Options
management, it would be illegal and against the NMB rules for the company
to issue representation that is against an organization that has a
current election with the NMB.
The Teamsters Vote:
The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for
representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets
counted for the Teamsters. ANY action requesting pilot representation
during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger. The
Teamsters are the organizing activity that has made the current filing
and they are in control of the current circumstances. Therefore, FOPA
can not request to be added to the election nor may FOPA be a choice in
the election. The only way to vote for FOPA is to not call in or write
for representation on THIS current vote. The only way to vote NO for
the Teamsters in the up-coming election is to NOT vote.
Representation:
The self representation model works. The SWAPA, the Southwest Airlines
Pilot's Association is an excellent example and is the model for FOPA.
The SWAPA organization began in 1978 by a few pilots that wanted to
represent the 100 line pilots. The organization filed with the NMB and
was announced as official representation of the pilot's of Southwest.
SWAPA formulated a contract with management that was so good the pilots
voted the contract in for 12 years. The working relationship between
management and SWAPA is exceptional and is a true role model amongst many
associations across the country.
Teamster vs FOPA
FOPA is NOT an ANTI UNION attempt. FOPA is providing another option
for representation to the Flight Option's pilot work force. The pilots
will make their own choice of what will be the preferred representation
for them. The Teamsters will make comments and accusations against
FOPA, however, FOPA founders will not make any rebuttals or counter
arguments against the Teamsters. FOPA will state the facts, what FOPA can
offer and what benefits you will have under self representation. If you
are not sure about the info you are receiving, please contact us and
let us give you the facts about FOPA.
What now, how do we get this rolling and how can you help? DON'T CALL
the number the NMB is sending to you. This will give a vote for the
Teamsters and FOPA will not be able to do anything once the Teamsters are
the controlling representatives. Once the vote has failed for the
Teamsters, FOPA will make an official announcement of their campaign.
Conclusion:
We ask you to consider FOPA as an option for representation. Let
pilots that you elect represent you and your needs.
This is not a last minute attempt to organize an internal union. This
plan has been in development for awhile however, due to the brutal
tactics of the Teamsters, the founders elected to hold the announcement.
Due to the tactics used by the Teamsters and by many pro-union
activists, this email may get modified. To avoid that, the official FOPA flyer
release is attached. If you did not receive the attachment, please
email us directly for a copy.
Attached is the FOPA Formalization Handbook, which sets the guidelines
for FOPA standard operating procedures and processes. This document is
DRAFT form, however pilots may have access to this handbook to ensure
process are developed. The final version of the handbook will be
released upon FOPA's card campaign.
In closure, IF YOU WANT FOPA REPRESENTATION, do not make any contact
with the NMB no matter what propaganda is used by the Teamsters. Any
contact at all may be used as a vote for Teamster representation.
FOPA will begin distributing cards for a 35% collection to the NMB -
March 6, 2006
Pilots apply to be FOPA reps - April 6, 2006
Pilots elect preliminary applicants - April 17, 2006 thru April 20,
2006
Pilots vote for final FOPA reps - May 1, 2006 thru May 4, 2006
Announcement of FOPA reps- May 8, 206
FOPA reps conduct orientation meeting - May 15, 2006. FOPA reps meet
with management at end of June, 2006.
This schedule is a proposal and dates may vary due to Teamster
activity. However, the time line for FOPA agreements is within 6 months of
being voted as the representation of Flight Option pilots, which is
excessively less than any Teamster contract negotiation. It may also take
longer than 30 days to complete a card campaign; however, this is the
initial goal of FOPA.
Benefits for choosing FOPA:
-One voice from pilot to management. One point of contact from
management to the
pilots.
-No drawn out negotiation between Teamsters and Flight Options
management
-Benefits and compensation packages will be created quicker
-Represented by line pilots that pilots will elect with no outside
political influence.
-Each fleet will have a point of contact to voice their opinion.
-NO initiation dues or expected donations to the organization, unlike
the Teamsters
- Southwest Airlines Pilot's Association (SWAPA) is an exceptional
union organization and is admired by many associations across the country.
The working relationship between management and the pilots is a model
for how FOPA intends to conduct operations.
FOPA dues:
Pilots will not pay dues until a contract has been voted on and
approved by the pilot work force. Pilots will also not have to pay any
initiation donations to FOPA. Dues will be collected at 1 percent of a
pilot's salary. The dues collected by FOPA will be placed into a banking
account and all account activity will be accessible by the pilot work
force. Dues collected will pay for the FOPA web site, attorney on
retainer fees, misc. office expenses, representative compensation and
additional costs occurred. Dues paid to FOPA will be solely for FOPA activity.
Unlike the Teamsters who use YOUR 1.5% dues for all their other
interests.
FOPA and Flight Options Management:
Flight Option's management has NO involvement in FOPA. The founders of
FOPA are not management and are line pilots that wish to have a long
term career with the company. This email is not from Flight Options
management, it would be illegal and against the NMB rules for the company
to issue representation that is against an organization that has a
current election with the NMB.
The Teamsters Vote:
The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for
representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets
counted for the Teamsters. ANY action requesting pilot representation
during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger. The
Teamsters are the organizing activity that has made the current filing
and they are in control of the current circumstances. Therefore, FOPA
can not request to be added to the election nor may FOPA be a choice in
the election. The only way to vote for FOPA is to not call in or write
for representation on THIS current vote. The only way to vote NO for
the Teamsters in the up-coming election is to NOT vote.
Representation:
The self representation model works. The SWAPA, the Southwest Airlines
Pilot's Association is an excellent example and is the model for FOPA.
The SWAPA organization began in 1978 by a few pilots that wanted to
represent the 100 line pilots. The organization filed with the NMB and
was announced as official representation of the pilot's of Southwest.
SWAPA formulated a contract with management that was so good the pilots
voted the contract in for 12 years. The working relationship between
management and SWAPA is exceptional and is a true role model amongst many
associations across the country.
Teamster vs FOPA
FOPA is NOT an ANTI UNION attempt. FOPA is providing another option
for representation to the Flight Option's pilot work force. The pilots
will make their own choice of what will be the preferred representation
for them. The Teamsters will make comments and accusations against
FOPA, however, FOPA founders will not make any rebuttals or counter
arguments against the Teamsters. FOPA will state the facts, what FOPA can
offer and what benefits you will have under self representation. If you
are not sure about the info you are receiving, please contact us and
let us give you the facts about FOPA.
What now, how do we get this rolling and how can you help? DON'T CALL
the number the NMB is sending to you. This will give a vote for the
Teamsters and FOPA will not be able to do anything once the Teamsters are
the controlling representatives. Once the vote has failed for the
Teamsters, FOPA will make an official announcement of their campaign.
Conclusion:
We ask you to consider FOPA as an option for representation. Let
pilots that you elect represent you and your needs.
This is not a last minute attempt to organize an internal union. This
plan has been in development for awhile however, due to the brutal
tactics of the Teamsters, the founders elected to hold the announcement.
Due to the tactics used by the Teamsters and by many pro-union
activists, this email may get modified. To avoid that, the official FOPA flyer
release is attached. If you did not receive the attachment, please
email us directly for a copy.
Attached is the FOPA Formalization Handbook, which sets the guidelines
for FOPA standard operating procedures and processes. This document is
DRAFT form, however pilots may have access to this handbook to ensure
process are developed. The final version of the handbook will be
released upon FOPA's card campaign.
In closure, IF YOU WANT FOPA REPRESENTATION, do not make any contact
with the NMB no matter what propaganda is used by the Teamsters. Any
contact at all may be used as a vote for Teamster representation.
Fozzy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 889
Wow, that is a mouth full. Boy that sounds a lot like the group that Flex has that speaks for the pilots to the company. And look at all they have accomplished 
.
Drawn out negotiations huh? That sounds like company rhetoric to me. It took IBT 1108 NINE months.
This sounds like a company ploy. Not sure who these jokers are, but I am sure they will not have the tools needed to get a contract you will happy with.
And BTW, I am VERY happy with the IBT. They have helped 1108 out every time we asked. I know it is fun to poke fun at them, but they have been will worth the money.
Ignore this FUD. Vote for 1108.
.Drawn out negotiations huh? That sounds like company rhetoric to me. It took IBT 1108 NINE months.
This sounds like a company ploy. Not sure who these jokers are, but I am sure they will not have the tools needed to get a contract you will happy with.
And BTW, I am VERY happy with the IBT. They have helped 1108 out every time we asked. I know it is fun to poke fun at them, but they have been will worth the money.
Ignore this FUD. Vote for 1108.
Schmeddley
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Posts
- 7
ALL FOPA supporters-Write in FOPA when selecting choice of representative
FOPA writes:
"The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for
representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets
counted for the Teamsters. ANY action requesting pilot representation
during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger."
The Truth
The way the election actually works is as follows, despite the above attempt at misrepresentation. (No. I'll call it like it is. FOPA ground instructor is OUTRIGHT LYING about this. Not a good way to begin a campaign to gain pilots' trust)
When the ballots are added up, if 50%+1 of eligible voters vote for any union then Flight Options pilots gain representation.
The union that actually wins the right to do that representing depends on which union gets the majority of votes.
A vote for "FOPA" does not "automatically" count as a vote for ASAP as the Dallas ground instructor would have you believe.
So if you want "FOPA?" Vote for "FOPA" as a write in. If you want ASAP, vote for ASAP which is legitimate enough to actually have bothered to register themselves with the NMB as a legitimate candidate and has therefore earned the right to be on the ballot, having collected enough cards.
Now if the Dallas ground instructor behind FOPA doesn't think he started the game early enough to play catch up, he has another choice.
After ASAP wins representation for Flight Options pilots, FOPA can busy itself in the following months collecting cards to petition for an election to unseat ASAP and replace them as the pilots' representative.
This way the pilots at least have some protection in the interim. What the Dallas Ground instructor is recommending is similar to recommending that you and your family "go bare" without any health insurance, is it not?
Now, how responsible is that?
Flight Options pilots should not "go bare" any longer. They need the insurance that comes with legal representation. ASAP
Schmeddley, Join Date January 2006? Church Lady, "Isn't that Special?"
FOPA writes:
"The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for
representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets
counted for the Teamsters. ANY action requesting pilot representation
during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger."
The Truth
The way the election actually works is as follows, despite the above attempt at misrepresentation. (No. I'll call it like it is. FOPA ground instructor is OUTRIGHT LYING about this. Not a good way to begin a campaign to gain pilots' trust)
When the ballots are added up, if 50%+1 of eligible voters vote for any union then Flight Options pilots gain representation.
The union that actually wins the right to do that representing depends on which union gets the majority of votes.
A vote for "FOPA" does not "automatically" count as a vote for ASAP as the Dallas ground instructor would have you believe.
So if you want "FOPA?" Vote for "FOPA" as a write in. If you want ASAP, vote for ASAP which is legitimate enough to actually have bothered to register themselves with the NMB as a legitimate candidate and has therefore earned the right to be on the ballot, having collected enough cards.
Now if the Dallas ground instructor behind FOPA doesn't think he started the game early enough to play catch up, he has another choice.
After ASAP wins representation for Flight Options pilots, FOPA can busy itself in the following months collecting cards to petition for an election to unseat ASAP and replace them as the pilots' representative.
This way the pilots at least have some protection in the interim. What the Dallas Ground instructor is recommending is similar to recommending that you and your family "go bare" without any health insurance, is it not?
Now, how responsible is that?
Flight Options pilots should not "go bare" any longer. They need the insurance that comes with legal representation. ASAP
Schmeddley, Join Date January 2006? Church Lady, "Isn't that Special?"
Last edited:
waka
Emasculating the Right
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 1,972
another side
anti-union pilots try a "flight options pilots association trick"
In corresponding with Bob Tyler, and the anti-union law firm Ford & Harrison, it is clear that a couple of our anti-union brethren have decided to try to cause a chink in the armor of the 1108 union drive by trying to announce an in-house "pilot's assocation".
This e-mail was obviously sent with the help of management - it was sent to all the dispatch rows. The e-mail was sent from an anonymous person at a yahoo e-mail address.
Time to pick this e-mail apart, and make sure that our pilots truly understand how uneducated this person(s) is regarding the Railroad Labor Act.
Here we go!
This email is to notify you that the Flight Options Pilot’s Association has been formalized in an effort to represent the Flight Options pilot work force.
What is the Flight Options Pilot’s Association?
The majority of Flight Option Pilots agree that a third party communicator is needed between management and the pilot work force.
You got that right. Over 70%, and the cards keep coming in.
There has to be one point of contact from the pilots to management and vice versa. The only option available for representation was the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, a nation wide organization that represents 1.4 million people in different fields across different regions. Flight Option pilots are not the Teamster’s sole and primary interest, therefore, the attention required by Flight Options’ pilot work force will not be met accordingly.
Nice try. In reality, the Teamsters are just the financial suporters. The union will be 100% ran and operated by Flight Options pilots elected by Flight Options pilots. 78% of all the dues that Flight Options pilots pay (after ratification of our first contract) stay in the union. "The Teamsters" will not make any money on Flight Options.
Also, I believe if you look at the contract that Net Jets pilots received, you will see that fractional aviation is the ONLY interest of the union. 1108 has nothing to do with any other labor fields.
The pilots need results quickly with a process developed that will create fair working conditions, competitive compensation and a communication process to voice concerns to management. This will not be provided for a substantial amount of time with Teamster representation. The Teamsters will only delay any improvements in working conditions by prolonged negotiation techniques.
Let's see. 1108 did it in 10 months. How does this person think they could do it any faster? Especially without national support from the best labor lawyers in the country? I put my faith in 1108 over some "yahoo" that we don't even know who they are, and they have no support from anyone.
Therefore, a group of Flight Options Pilots have joined together to create another option for representation. This group is initially privately funded and consists of no management, solely Flight Option line pilots.
Who? Who are these pilots who want to represent us without any union affiliation?
This organization is called the Flight Options Pilot’s Association, also called FOPA. The founders of FOPA will remain confidential until the current IBT vote has finished being conducted in an effort to avoid repercussions from management or the Teamsters.
A fair statement, however asking the pilots, who have with an overwhelming majority of support for the 1108 and all we've done, to just "give it all up" for pilots who won't even put a name to their face like we have, does not instill our trust. We KNOW what is at stake, here, and if the vote were to fail, their little pilots' association would not have any clout. We will go into that in a few.
Once the Teamsters vote fails, FOPA will announce its representatives and intentions to management. This is also the first announcement to the management team of Flight Options. The purpose of FOPA is not to create a wall between management and the pilots but instead assist in organizing self-representation and an effective communication channel between both parties.
Does anybody else smell a Barry Hanchett maneuver? "Let me lead you! I know what you want! You young guys don't know what you want, let me lead you!"
Do not let the serpent beguile you.
How FOPA works?
DO NOT vote for Teamster representation. This may be achieved by NOT calling the Teamster ballot telephone number. Once the Teamster ballot has failed, the Flight Options Pilot’s Association (FOPA) will announce to management their intent to represent the pilot work force and the names of the reps and their positions will be released. FOPA reps will hold five temporary positions; one president and four pilot representatives.
The representatives will then begin formalization of FOPA per the agenda and schedule discussed below. The initial plan after announcement of the FOPA representatives will be to start a card campaign by distributing cards to the pilot work force. During the distribution of cards, FOPA reps will approach management with a copy of the Formalization Handbook and ask for an official signed agreement to conduct operations within these guidelines.
This is where things really start to fall apart. What these people (we believe being coached by Ford & Harrison) want, is to have an in-house association and have you sign a petition authorizing them to be your leaders, with NO ELECTION. Unfortunately, for them to represent us and create a collective bargaining agreement (CBA), they would have to wait 12 months from the previous vote before the NMB would hold a vote to have them participate. They seem to think that with different wording, that they could circumvent the RLA on this. They can't. Even if we all were to agree to this crazy plan, we would have to wait another 12 months after March 2, 2006 before we could hold another vote to allow them to represent us and work on a CBA.
anti-union pilots try a "flight options pilots association trick"
In corresponding with Bob Tyler, and the anti-union law firm Ford & Harrison, it is clear that a couple of our anti-union brethren have decided to try to cause a chink in the armor of the 1108 union drive by trying to announce an in-house "pilot's assocation".
This e-mail was obviously sent with the help of management - it was sent to all the dispatch rows. The e-mail was sent from an anonymous person at a yahoo e-mail address.
Time to pick this e-mail apart, and make sure that our pilots truly understand how uneducated this person(s) is regarding the Railroad Labor Act.
Here we go!
This email is to notify you that the Flight Options Pilot’s Association has been formalized in an effort to represent the Flight Options pilot work force.
What is the Flight Options Pilot’s Association?
The majority of Flight Option Pilots agree that a third party communicator is needed between management and the pilot work force.
You got that right. Over 70%, and the cards keep coming in.
There has to be one point of contact from the pilots to management and vice versa. The only option available for representation was the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, a nation wide organization that represents 1.4 million people in different fields across different regions. Flight Option pilots are not the Teamster’s sole and primary interest, therefore, the attention required by Flight Options’ pilot work force will not be met accordingly.
Nice try. In reality, the Teamsters are just the financial suporters. The union will be 100% ran and operated by Flight Options pilots elected by Flight Options pilots. 78% of all the dues that Flight Options pilots pay (after ratification of our first contract) stay in the union. "The Teamsters" will not make any money on Flight Options.
Also, I believe if you look at the contract that Net Jets pilots received, you will see that fractional aviation is the ONLY interest of the union. 1108 has nothing to do with any other labor fields.
The pilots need results quickly with a process developed that will create fair working conditions, competitive compensation and a communication process to voice concerns to management. This will not be provided for a substantial amount of time with Teamster representation. The Teamsters will only delay any improvements in working conditions by prolonged negotiation techniques.
Let's see. 1108 did it in 10 months. How does this person think they could do it any faster? Especially without national support from the best labor lawyers in the country? I put my faith in 1108 over some "yahoo" that we don't even know who they are, and they have no support from anyone.
Therefore, a group of Flight Options Pilots have joined together to create another option for representation. This group is initially privately funded and consists of no management, solely Flight Option line pilots.
Who? Who are these pilots who want to represent us without any union affiliation?
This organization is called the Flight Options Pilot’s Association, also called FOPA. The founders of FOPA will remain confidential until the current IBT vote has finished being conducted in an effort to avoid repercussions from management or the Teamsters.
A fair statement, however asking the pilots, who have with an overwhelming majority of support for the 1108 and all we've done, to just "give it all up" for pilots who won't even put a name to their face like we have, does not instill our trust. We KNOW what is at stake, here, and if the vote were to fail, their little pilots' association would not have any clout. We will go into that in a few.
Once the Teamsters vote fails, FOPA will announce its representatives and intentions to management. This is also the first announcement to the management team of Flight Options. The purpose of FOPA is not to create a wall between management and the pilots but instead assist in organizing self-representation and an effective communication channel between both parties.
Does anybody else smell a Barry Hanchett maneuver? "Let me lead you! I know what you want! You young guys don't know what you want, let me lead you!"
Do not let the serpent beguile you.
How FOPA works?
DO NOT vote for Teamster representation. This may be achieved by NOT calling the Teamster ballot telephone number. Once the Teamster ballot has failed, the Flight Options Pilot’s Association (FOPA) will announce to management their intent to represent the pilot work force and the names of the reps and their positions will be released. FOPA reps will hold five temporary positions; one president and four pilot representatives.
The representatives will then begin formalization of FOPA per the agenda and schedule discussed below. The initial plan after announcement of the FOPA representatives will be to start a card campaign by distributing cards to the pilot work force. During the distribution of cards, FOPA reps will approach management with a copy of the Formalization Handbook and ask for an official signed agreement to conduct operations within these guidelines.
This is where things really start to fall apart. What these people (we believe being coached by Ford & Harrison) want, is to have an in-house association and have you sign a petition authorizing them to be your leaders, with NO ELECTION. Unfortunately, for them to represent us and create a collective bargaining agreement (CBA), they would have to wait 12 months from the previous vote before the NMB would hold a vote to have them participate. They seem to think that with different wording, that they could circumvent the RLA on this. They can't. Even if we all were to agree to this crazy plan, we would have to wait another 12 months after March 2, 2006 before we could hold another vote to allow them to represent us and work on a CBA.
These guidelines will solely establish practices that will protect FOPA affiliates from termination or repercussions from management and give basic guidelines to protect the pilot work force from mergers or acquisitions as well as any deductions in current benefits or compensation. This agreement will not change any current benefits and will be void upon a voted contract by the pilot work force; these are just guidelines for formalization of the FOPA organization. Upon managements agreement Bob Tyler will be asked to release the compensation plan he had announced before the Teamsters filed with the NMB. If management will not sign the Formalization Handbook agreement, FOPA founders will continue with the card campaign and file with the NMB for an official vote and except any repercussions imposed by Flight Option’s management. Upon receiving 35% of the pilot’s cards, FOPA will file the application with the NMB for an election. If the FOPA vote receives 50% plus 1 with the NMB, FOPA will then officially represent the Flight Options pilot work force. FOPA will then initiate a nomination period where any pilot interested in representing the pilot workforce will be able to submit their name. The applicants will complete the FOPA form 107, this form will state their background and why they should represent the pilots. The applicant information will be forwarded to the pilot group for review. Upon the review deadline an election will be held within the pilot workforce narrowing the representation group to 20 pilots (five pilots per future fleet type) and 5 president applicants. Application forms will be disseminated again. The pilot work force will then vote for 4 pilots to represent the pilot work force and one president to represent FOPA and act as a liaison between FOPA and Flight Option’s management. Initially, the elected FOPA reps will represent a variety of fleet types, as the company moves on with the go foreword plan of four aircraft types the reps will stream line their representation to a specific type of aircraft. The new FOPA representatives will then meet with the FOPA founders to formalize the association and establish the pass over from the founders to the elected positions. The association will then compile a list of concerns and requests from the pilot work force. Once a list of concerns is compiled the association will schedule an orientation with management representatives. At this orientation, FOPA representatives will begin negotiations with Flight Options management on a formal contract. During negotiations, FOPA reps will take into consideration all current competitive contracts.
In other words, they will attempt to do exactly what we have already done with the NMB, and what we have already done with Net Jets' very successful 1108. The only difference is, these pilots have no national support system in place. They have no money to fight for a contract - and since they cannot file for NMB voting in of their plan can't happen for 12 months, the company does not:
A) even have to recognize them, because they have no legal enmity or authority, and
B) This same "entity" that is not a legal enmity has no money to fight them for not bargaining in good faith. They would not even have the money to file simple grievances when the company "wrongs" the pilots with their little "FOPA workbook", which by the way, would NOT be a legal contract, only an "agreement", which would take money, OUR money, to fight in court with. Considering we are only 800 pilots, legal fees alone could eat our dues up in grievance processes, leaving no funds for negotiations.
Note: This is NOT a problem for the IBT 1108, because although we are technically an "in-house" union of Flight Options pilots, ELECTED by Flight Options pilots (not done in a hostile take-over of self-representation like they are proposing), because WE don't pay ANY dues until AFTER contract negotiations are COMPLETE. These guys can't do the same thing, not unless they are willing to spend more than their own yearly salaries in legal fees - probably 10 times more.
FOPA Schedule:
FOPA will begin distributing cards for a 35% collection to the NMB – March 6, 2006
Pilots apply to be FOPA reps – April 6, 2006
Pilots elect preliminary applicants – April 17, 2006 thru April 20, 2006
Pilots vote for final FOPA reps - May 1, 2006 thru May 4, 2006
Announcement of FOPA reps- May 8, 206
FOPA reps conduct orientation meeting – May 15, 2006. FOPA reps meet with management at end of June, 2006.
This proposed schedule is incredibly not possible. You cannot vote to have RLA-protected employee leadership NOR start negotiating for a contract for at least 12 months after a previous vote attempt. These guys have obviously never read the Railway Labor Act. They should consult a lawyer, because this information could place them in court for spreading lible.
If the vote were to fail, we could do NOTHING to have any kind of representation for 12 months. Period. No matter what you call yourselves, or how you think you could come up with said elections. The RLA, and the NMB is clear on this.
This schedule is a proposal and dates may vary due to Teamster activity.
You're right - like a successful vote and we start ELECTING Flight Options pilots to represent us, only with legal, RLA protection and an RLA-enforced contract, not this... whatever you want to call it plan.
However, the time line for FOPA agreements is within 6 months of being voted as the representation of Flight Option pilots, which is excessively less than any Teamster contract negotiation. It may also take longer than 30 days to complete a card campaign; however, this is the initial goal of FOPA.
So they are saying they can do in 6 months what the 1108, with professional assistance from the best labor law firm in the country, did in 10 months... Yes, it is a "goal" - one that would never be reached because the NMB won't allow it for at least 12 months anway. But go ahead and make it one of your goals.
Benefits for choosing FOPA:
-One voice from pilot to management. One point of contact from management to the
pilots.
Just like our 1108 will be. The only difference is that our pilots pick the leadership instead of these "people", whoever they are, usurp the power over our pilots.
-No drawn out negotiation between Teamsters and Flight Options management
Now let's get serious. If these "leaders" could just walk in and ask management to "sign here" and make a new contract, and they DID sign it, do you think it would be something our pilots would vote on? Do they really think we would let them decide what's best for us and not even let us vote on it? Again. These people miss the point on what elected leadership, and having pilots vote on a contract is all about.
-Benefits and compensation packages will be created quicker
But nowhere near the industry's standard,
-Represented by line pilots that pilots will elect with no outside political influence.
But not before these anonymous pilots get in charge first, and get their little workbook to be signed by management and setting in stone a contract without our input, or us ELECTING them to do so. With their plan, the elections for the leaders would take place AFTER they consult with management about our quality of life issues - all of them.
-Each fleet will have a point of contact to voice their opinion.
However, with no national support, the in-house association would not have any funds to file and fight grievances with the company. Grievances mean lawyers, and lawyers cost money. With the IBT, we don't ever have to worry about grievance money, or contract negotiating money. It's paid for, and if our own funds don't handle it, we have the national coffers of 1.4 MILLION members' monthly dues.
-NO initiation dues or expected donations to the organization, unlike the Teamsters
Which means that the pockets of these FOPA founders must be lined with gold, because negotiating a contract, and enforcing a contract, are both very expensive ventures. This should be a heads' up. Someone's trying to sell us ocean-front property in Arizona.
Southwest Airlines Pilot’s Association (SWAPA) is an exceptional union organization and is admired by many associations across the country. The working relationship between management and the pilots is a model for how FOPA intends to conduct operations.
The average salary of a Southwest Pilot is 2-3 times that of a Flight Options pilot. They also are pretty much the ONLY successful in-house "pilot's associaton'. This person is correct however, that they are in fact a UNION. An IN-HOUSE union. What they are proposing is basically what we could best describe, as "the PRT 2". Without petitioning the NMB for official representation, they are NOT a union, and therefore have zero authority, and cannot legally represent us... and if they do petition, they can't do so for 12 months. That means, for 12 months, we have nothing. Zero protection from any management who wants to single out a pro-union pilot, and zero protection from merging or being sold. ZERO PROTECTION. For 12 months.
FOPA dues:
Pilots will not pay dues until a contract has been voted on and approved by the pilot work force.
Negotiating a contract can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and several years, if the company wishes to draw it out. No amount of super-hero negotiating pilots can change that. Net Jets' negotiating committee had some of the best powerhouse people in the business, including PILOTS who spent decades working for major airlines in union contract negotiations. Even if there are 5 pilots who are running FOPA, and all of them are in the top 5 of the seniority list, they could not fund this by themselves. So where would the money be coming from?
Pilots will also not have to pay any initiation donations to FOPA. Dues will be collected at 1 percent of a pilot’s salary. The dues collected by FOPA will be placed into a banking account and all account activity will be accessible by the pilot work force.
Exactly the same is true for 1108. All monies are accounted for and made available on spending to the pilots. Nothing is hidden.
Dues collected will pay for the FOPA web site, attorney on retainer fees, misc. office expenses, representative compensation and additional costs occurred. Dues paid to FOPA will be solely for FOPA activity. Unlike the Teamsters who use YOUR 1.5% dues for all their other interests.
This is a flat out lie that could land them in court. In reality, it is 1.56% of your salary, and 78% of those dues stay at the local, spent at the local. Only 22% of those dues go to National, to help out with the national support system that is in place. As I have already explained. The Teamsters will spend way more on us than they will make on us getting a contract. Unlike ALPA or other organizations, the majority of our dues stay here for our pilots to utilize.
FOPA and Flight Options Management:
Flight Option’s management has NO involvement in FOPA.
Let's see. "some pilots", who will not disclose who they are, want the majority of our pilots to "vote no", then let THEM become our leaders, have the company sign a "fopa workbook" with rules having "them" in place for leadership, and start negotiating on our behalf. WHEN the company does this, they then will set up for elections for leaders. And if the company does not cooperate, then they will petition the NMB to do that very same thing... which by the way, can't happen for 12 more months of the company having its way with our pilots.
That is an INCREDIBLE amount of trust to place on pilots who will not even disclose who they are and what they represent.
The founders of FOPA are not management and are line pilots that wish to have a long term career with the company. The pilots will elect their own representatives of who the pilots want and the founders will step aside and allow the organization of elected representatives to take control.
But, the damage will have already been done at that point, and there isn't anything the pilot group
A) had any say in what transpired in negotiations OR who was negotiating for them, and
B) The pilots had zero say in the bylaws that will have been set up in how the elections are ran, what offices are doing what responsibilities, and who gets to decide on things.
Something our pilots need to consider - 1108's By-laws are set up so that THE PILOT GROUP must vote on ANY changes that are made to the CBA. This is NOT always the case. For instance, at ALPA, at some MEC's the MEC chairmen can make large changes to the contract without pilot vote or involvement.
We have no idea what these peoples' by-laws would be written. Considering the scatter-brained mentality of their "business plan", our guess is that it would have as much holes as swiss cheese in negotiating a fair contract for us pilots, and we may not have ANY say in what those negotiations are. Their own plan is to provide their own version of "a contract" to management and have it signed, without any say of our pilots. THEN they elect representatives and "step down". Sound fair?
Wouldn't you rather hold elections for our pilot leaders FIRST, start negotiations SECOND, and of course, have the pilots VOTE on a contract THIRD, before it becomes "law"?
The Teamsters Vote:
The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets counted for the Teamsters.
That is about as blatant a lie as can be, and is probably once again, stated in ignorance of someone who has never read the RLA or even ever gone to the NMB website.
These FOPA people could in fact petition to be on the ballot and be an option for the vote, if they were smart enough to figure out how to make it happen. The fact that they said the above statement, clearly tells us that we would not want THEM leading us, they do not even understand the process in which they want to lead us in.
ANY action requesting pilot representation during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger.
Again, inaccurate and an ignorant statement.
The average salary of a Southwest Pilot is 2-3 times that of a Flight Options pilot. They also are pretty much the ONLY successful in-house "pilot's associaton'. This person is correct however, that they are in fact a UNION. An IN-HOUSE union. What they are proposing is basically what we could best describe, as "the PRT 2". Without petitioning the NMB for official representation, they are NOT a union, and therefore have zero authority, and cannot legally represent us... and if they do petition, they can't do so for 12 months. That means, for 12 months, we have nothing. Zero protection from any management who wants to single out a pro-union pilot, and zero protection from merging or being sold. ZERO PROTECTION. For 12 months.
FOPA dues:
Pilots will not pay dues until a contract has been voted on and approved by the pilot work force.
Negotiating a contract can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and several years, if the company wishes to draw it out. No amount of super-hero negotiating pilots can change that. Net Jets' negotiating committee had some of the best powerhouse people in the business, including PILOTS who spent decades working for major airlines in union contract negotiations. Even if there are 5 pilots who are running FOPA, and all of them are in the top 5 of the seniority list, they could not fund this by themselves. So where would the money be coming from?
Pilots will also not have to pay any initiation donations to FOPA. Dues will be collected at 1 percent of a pilot’s salary. The dues collected by FOPA will be placed into a banking account and all account activity will be accessible by the pilot work force.
Exactly the same is true for 1108. All monies are accounted for and made available on spending to the pilots. Nothing is hidden.
Dues collected will pay for the FOPA web site, attorney on retainer fees, misc. office expenses, representative compensation and additional costs occurred. Dues paid to FOPA will be solely for FOPA activity. Unlike the Teamsters who use YOUR 1.5% dues for all their other interests.
This is a flat out lie that could land them in court. In reality, it is 1.56% of your salary, and 78% of those dues stay at the local, spent at the local. Only 22% of those dues go to National, to help out with the national support system that is in place. As I have already explained. The Teamsters will spend way more on us than they will make on us getting a contract. Unlike ALPA or other organizations, the majority of our dues stay here for our pilots to utilize.
FOPA and Flight Options Management:
Flight Option’s management has NO involvement in FOPA.
Let's see. "some pilots", who will not disclose who they are, want the majority of our pilots to "vote no", then let THEM become our leaders, have the company sign a "fopa workbook" with rules having "them" in place for leadership, and start negotiating on our behalf. WHEN the company does this, they then will set up for elections for leaders. And if the company does not cooperate, then they will petition the NMB to do that very same thing... which by the way, can't happen for 12 more months of the company having its way with our pilots.
That is an INCREDIBLE amount of trust to place on pilots who will not even disclose who they are and what they represent.
The founders of FOPA are not management and are line pilots that wish to have a long term career with the company. The pilots will elect their own representatives of who the pilots want and the founders will step aside and allow the organization of elected representatives to take control.
But, the damage will have already been done at that point, and there isn't anything the pilot group
A) had any say in what transpired in negotiations OR who was negotiating for them, and
B) The pilots had zero say in the bylaws that will have been set up in how the elections are ran, what offices are doing what responsibilities, and who gets to decide on things.
Something our pilots need to consider - 1108's By-laws are set up so that THE PILOT GROUP must vote on ANY changes that are made to the CBA. This is NOT always the case. For instance, at ALPA, at some MEC's the MEC chairmen can make large changes to the contract without pilot vote or involvement.
We have no idea what these peoples' by-laws would be written. Considering the scatter-brained mentality of their "business plan", our guess is that it would have as much holes as swiss cheese in negotiating a fair contract for us pilots, and we may not have ANY say in what those negotiations are. Their own plan is to provide their own version of "a contract" to management and have it signed, without any say of our pilots. THEN they elect representatives and "step down". Sound fair?
Wouldn't you rather hold elections for our pilot leaders FIRST, start negotiations SECOND, and of course, have the pilots VOTE on a contract THIRD, before it becomes "law"?
The Teamsters Vote:
The Teamsters are the union that has filed with the NMB, ANY vote for representation, ANY call-in vote, ANY write in vote, automatically gets counted for the Teamsters.
That is about as blatant a lie as can be, and is probably once again, stated in ignorance of someone who has never read the RLA or even ever gone to the NMB website.
These FOPA people could in fact petition to be on the ballot and be an option for the vote, if they were smart enough to figure out how to make it happen. The fact that they said the above statement, clearly tells us that we would not want THEM leading us, they do not even understand the process in which they want to lead us in.
ANY action requesting pilot representation during THIS NMB filing goes to the Teamsters side of the ledger.
Again, inaccurate and an ignorant statement.
The Teamsters are the organizing activity that has made the current filing and they are in control of the current circumstances. Therefore, FOPA can not request to be added to the election nor may FOPA be a choice in the election.
Actually, they probably don't want to compete against the 1108 in an election because they know they will fail. They CAN request to be added. The NMB's website is clear on this subject.
The only way to vote for FOPA is to not call in or write for representation on THIS current vote. The only way to vote NO for the Teamsters in the up-coming election is to NOT vote.
Again, wrong and legally proven to be so.
Representation:
The self representation model works. The SWAPA, the Southwest Airlines Pilot’s Association is an excellent example and is the model for FOPA. The SWAPA organization began in 1978 by a few pilots that wanted to represent the 100 line pilots. The organization filed with the NMB and was announced as official representation of the pilot’s of Southwest. SWAPA formulated a contract with management that was so good the pilots voted the contract in for 12 years. The working relationship between management and SWAPA is exceptional and is a true role model amongst many associations across the country.
All true statements. However, SWA treated their pilots right from the very beginning. They never violated the trust of their pilots like our company has. In fact, it is the very reason why SWA is so happy - they keep their employees happy. Our company has not opted to do that. We tried "in-house" committees in the past, and we see where they went. More on that in a few.
Teamster vs FOPA
FOPA is NOT an ANTI UNION attempt.
Yet, they say "don't vote" on election day. "Don't call in". That is exactly what the company's anti-union website says. But this isn't an anti-union attempt. Trust "them". Whomever "they" are.
FOPA is providing another option for representation to the Flight Option’s pilot work force.
Then do so legally, and put your name on the ballot. Do not risk these pilots' livelihoods by letting them once again be defeated by the company and be forced to live without any union representation or protection. Put your name on the ballot and compete for the best representative. We won't stop you.
The pilots will make their own choice of what will be the preferred representation for them.
Exactly - on voting day, they will do exactly that. If you want a chance, get on the ballot.
The Teamsters will make comments and accusations against FOPA, however, FOPA founders will not make any rebuttals or counter arguments against the Teamsters.
Well, let's get something straight. WE are Flight Options Pilots - NOT the Teamsters. We don't BECOME teamsters until AFTER the vote. And the only "teamsters" we will be, is fellow FRACTIONAL PILOTS of the 1108, which combined will be over 3000 pilots strong.
We Flight Options pilot organizers do happen to be a well educated group of pilots regarding the laws of the RLA and the NMB, and what a union can and can't do for us. We are PILOTS, not "the teamsters", making comments and accusations that the FOPA doesn't know what they are doing. They do not understand the RLA enough to even know how the process works. Why would we want to trust pilots without a thorough understanding of how the RLA works, and how to best use those laws, for our families when it comes to our relations and negotiating with our employer?
FOPA will state the facts, what FOPA can offer and what benefits you will have under self representation. If you are not sure about the info you are receiving, please contact us and let us give you the facts about FOPA.
Who is "us"? You won't reveal who you are? Why would we turn down good, proven leadership for a union Vote, with the 100% absolute guarantee of elected leaders to lead our negotiations, to a small group of unknown pilots with an illegal and unfeasable plan?
What now, how do we get this rolling and how can you help? DON’T CALL the number the NMB is sending to you. This will give a vote for the Teamsters and FOPA will not be able to do anything once the Teamsters are the controlling representatives. Once the vote has failed for the Teamsters, FOPA will make an official announcement of their campaign.
This is where we cast serious doubt of true intensions of these pilots. They say they are not involved with management, yet, they tell us to forfeit our right to vote for representation - this would be for only TWO reasons:
1) They are just ignorant to the laws and procedures of the RLA and the NMB, or
2) They ARE in fact being coached by the union busting law firm Ford & Harrison - this is EXACTLY what they want to see happen.
These pilots can place their little association on the ballot if they choose, and be an option for our pilots to vote on. There is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing that. We have to cast serious doubt as to why they choose not to do that - they are either incompetent to lead us because they do not know, or they are part of Ford & Harrison's anti-union plan. Neither one is in our best interests for our long-term future.
Conclusion:
We ask you to consider FOPA as an option for representation. Let pilots that you elect represent you and your needs.
This is not a last minute attempt to organize an internal union. This plan has been in development for awhile however, due to the brutal tactics of the Teamsters, the founders elected to hold the announcement.
They expect us to believe that? We recommend they fire their campaign manager. It is either indeed a last-minute plan, or again, incompetenence on their part for waiting.
Due to the tactics used by the Teamsters and by many pro-union activists, this email may get modified. To avoid that, the official FOPA flyer release is attached. If you did not receive the attachment, please email us directly for a copy.
We are holding it here in its entirety, including their e-mail address. Feel free to ask questions to them. They are promising the world, and to do so in 6 months. Sure, ask away. But the facts will always be presented to our pilots here - our organizing committee has always promised and delivered the truth to our pilots. We know the NMB and the RLA, and what these people are proposing are not possible in the time frames they are promising, and would not be anything but a "PRT" without an NMB vote, which means they have no authority - and to have that authority, would take over 12 months after the vote were to fail. Just go to the NMB's website to read that for yourselves. We are not exaggerating or making that up. They cannot legally do what they are proposing without complying with the NMB's 12-month minimum wait, which means their "PRT" committee would have no authority. We've seen what a committee such as that does.
Actually, they probably don't want to compete against the 1108 in an election because they know they will fail. They CAN request to be added. The NMB's website is clear on this subject.
The only way to vote for FOPA is to not call in or write for representation on THIS current vote. The only way to vote NO for the Teamsters in the up-coming election is to NOT vote.
Again, wrong and legally proven to be so.
Representation:
The self representation model works. The SWAPA, the Southwest Airlines Pilot’s Association is an excellent example and is the model for FOPA. The SWAPA organization began in 1978 by a few pilots that wanted to represent the 100 line pilots. The organization filed with the NMB and was announced as official representation of the pilot’s of Southwest. SWAPA formulated a contract with management that was so good the pilots voted the contract in for 12 years. The working relationship between management and SWAPA is exceptional and is a true role model amongst many associations across the country.
All true statements. However, SWA treated their pilots right from the very beginning. They never violated the trust of their pilots like our company has. In fact, it is the very reason why SWA is so happy - they keep their employees happy. Our company has not opted to do that. We tried "in-house" committees in the past, and we see where they went. More on that in a few.
Teamster vs FOPA
FOPA is NOT an ANTI UNION attempt.
Yet, they say "don't vote" on election day. "Don't call in". That is exactly what the company's anti-union website says. But this isn't an anti-union attempt. Trust "them". Whomever "they" are.
FOPA is providing another option for representation to the Flight Option’s pilot work force.
Then do so legally, and put your name on the ballot. Do not risk these pilots' livelihoods by letting them once again be defeated by the company and be forced to live without any union representation or protection. Put your name on the ballot and compete for the best representative. We won't stop you.
The pilots will make their own choice of what will be the preferred representation for them.
Exactly - on voting day, they will do exactly that. If you want a chance, get on the ballot.
The Teamsters will make comments and accusations against FOPA, however, FOPA founders will not make any rebuttals or counter arguments against the Teamsters.
Well, let's get something straight. WE are Flight Options Pilots - NOT the Teamsters. We don't BECOME teamsters until AFTER the vote. And the only "teamsters" we will be, is fellow FRACTIONAL PILOTS of the 1108, which combined will be over 3000 pilots strong.
We Flight Options pilot organizers do happen to be a well educated group of pilots regarding the laws of the RLA and the NMB, and what a union can and can't do for us. We are PILOTS, not "the teamsters", making comments and accusations that the FOPA doesn't know what they are doing. They do not understand the RLA enough to even know how the process works. Why would we want to trust pilots without a thorough understanding of how the RLA works, and how to best use those laws, for our families when it comes to our relations and negotiating with our employer?
FOPA will state the facts, what FOPA can offer and what benefits you will have under self representation. If you are not sure about the info you are receiving, please contact us and let us give you the facts about FOPA.
Who is "us"? You won't reveal who you are? Why would we turn down good, proven leadership for a union Vote, with the 100% absolute guarantee of elected leaders to lead our negotiations, to a small group of unknown pilots with an illegal and unfeasable plan?
What now, how do we get this rolling and how can you help? DON’T CALL the number the NMB is sending to you. This will give a vote for the Teamsters and FOPA will not be able to do anything once the Teamsters are the controlling representatives. Once the vote has failed for the Teamsters, FOPA will make an official announcement of their campaign.
This is where we cast serious doubt of true intensions of these pilots. They say they are not involved with management, yet, they tell us to forfeit our right to vote for representation - this would be for only TWO reasons:
1) They are just ignorant to the laws and procedures of the RLA and the NMB, or
2) They ARE in fact being coached by the union busting law firm Ford & Harrison - this is EXACTLY what they want to see happen.
These pilots can place their little association on the ballot if they choose, and be an option for our pilots to vote on. There is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing that. We have to cast serious doubt as to why they choose not to do that - they are either incompetent to lead us because they do not know, or they are part of Ford & Harrison's anti-union plan. Neither one is in our best interests for our long-term future.
Conclusion:
We ask you to consider FOPA as an option for representation. Let pilots that you elect represent you and your needs.
This is not a last minute attempt to organize an internal union. This plan has been in development for awhile however, due to the brutal tactics of the Teamsters, the founders elected to hold the announcement.
They expect us to believe that? We recommend they fire their campaign manager. It is either indeed a last-minute plan, or again, incompetenence on their part for waiting.
Due to the tactics used by the Teamsters and by many pro-union activists, this email may get modified. To avoid that, the official FOPA flyer release is attached. If you did not receive the attachment, please email us directly for a copy.
We are holding it here in its entirety, including their e-mail address. Feel free to ask questions to them. They are promising the world, and to do so in 6 months. Sure, ask away. But the facts will always be presented to our pilots here - our organizing committee has always promised and delivered the truth to our pilots. We know the NMB and the RLA, and what these people are proposing are not possible in the time frames they are promising, and would not be anything but a "PRT" without an NMB vote, which means they have no authority - and to have that authority, would take over 12 months after the vote were to fail. Just go to the NMB's website to read that for yourselves. We are not exaggerating or making that up. They cannot legally do what they are proposing without complying with the NMB's 12-month minimum wait, which means their "PRT" committee would have no authority. We've seen what a committee such as that does.
Attached is the FOPA Formalization Handbook, which sets the guidelines for FOPA standard operating procedures and processes. This document is DRAFT form, however pilots may have access to this handbook to ensure process are developed. The final version of the handbook will be released upon FOPA’s card campaign.
Which according to their own time schedule, would be AFTER they have already negotiated on your behalf, and they are already "in power" over you, as much as a PRT-type committee could be in charge of your pay, etc. - they would have no authority, and the company would have no legal reason to negotiate with them in good faith.
Note: We did not receive any e-mail attachment. We received this blackberry e-mail from several pilots that have sent in their cards and who plan on voting for the 1108.
In closure, IF YOU WANT FOPA REPRESENTATION, do not make any contact with the NMB no matter what propaganda is used by the Teamsters. Any contact at all may be used as a vote for Teamster representation.
This is more proof that they do not know the NMB's voting processes. As has been said several times now, they could get on the ballot if they wish.
Contact Information:
If anyone has a direct question about FOPA, please email us at [email protected]. FOPA is in progress of constructing an official web site to provide information to the pilot group, until then pilots are encouraged to email FOPA and request to be placed on the email list for updates and any new release of information.
Sincerely,
Founders of FOPA
Feel free to contact them. We have nothing to hide from our pilots, we believe that they will be able to see through this charade of incompetence that these people, whomever they are, will not be able to provide the pilots the level of professional, successful representation of our pilot group that the 1108, and only the 1108, can provide.
Let's have a serious paragraph regarding the pro's and con's of an in-house union.
First off, what these pilots of "FOPA" want, is not an in-house union at first, it is a coup attempt to place themselves in power. We have a pretty good idea who is behind this, and so do you, and this is typical of them.
They want to place themselves in power, then present a set of bylaws that the company would sign and agree to, recognizing them as your representatives without you ever voting them into such office... and they want you to "vote no" on March 2nd without knowing who they are. That's exactly what they said, and we'll just leave it at that.
However, let's talk about in-house unions.
Southwest Airlines is pretty much the only successful in-house union. The next one would probably be American Airlines' in-house union, called the Allied Pilots' association. Next, would probably be Sky West Airlines' pilots' association.
All of these are in-house unions, and have great, average, and moderate success, respectively.
An in-house union can be successful if the relationship with management is good. Historically, this has to happen FIRST. We aren't in that situation, our relationship with management is terrible - we have totally lost their trust. Therefore, we cannot trust that our management would negotiate in good faith, which is the key ingredient to an in-house union being successful.
What happens with an in-house union that does not have a good relationship with management is that the union can be stressed to fight for their contracts.
"FOPA"'s plan of NOT paying any dues until we have a contract (which they never said would be voted on by the pilots), paying no initiation fees, and only paying 1% of our bottom-of-the-industry standard salaries, does not leave much money for negotiations.
It would be very easy to bancrupt the "FOPA" if Raytheon wanted to. Even if these pilots were to kick in say $1 million. Raytheon would know they could break this bank by laying seige on the association, and stalling out negotiations as long as possible. Our little 1% of our salaries would not keep up with the legal costs.
Another example of when management and an in-house union don't get along, is what happened to American Airlines' allied pilots association when they went on a "sick-out". Management wasn't negotiating in good faith and the NMB's mediators wouldn't release the union for a strike, even though they had a successful strike vote. The only retaliation their pilots could do was plan a sick-out, and try to put a hurt on the company.
The company took them to court, and the judge imposed a $10 million fine on the pilots - it nearly bankrupted their union (which is thousands of pilots who make a lot more money than we make), and they still have not recovered - but the company did bust their union, who now doesn't have the money to fight for a good contract.
That would not be possible with 1108. We have the 1.4 million dues-paying members of the teamsters behind us - however, nearly all of our dues, 78%, goes to our local for our use. We have the BEST of both worlds - an in-house union, with EVERY SINGLE ADVANTAGE the "fopa" pilots listed, with national union support to back us up, so that we do not have to worry about the expensive legal fees of filing hundreds and hundreds of grievances, and expensive contract negotiations.
"FOPA" can't offer those protections. They don't offer elections before bargaining. They don't tell us "who" their "temporary" leaders who would be bargaining for us would be, and they don't even understand the NMB's legal processes.
Knowing all this, how could one possibly, even for a second, think of having these people represent us? It is unfathomable that they would even try it.
We have faith in the 1108. We have seen it function, and what it has done for Net Jets. We have sweated hours with their leadership in helping our pilots get the NMB to establish a vote for our pilots. We will hold elections as soon as possible after the election is over and trust our elected leaders to work with the successful leaders of net jet's 1108 to start negotiations in good faith with our management, and we know that the by-laws that the 1108 operate under are FAIR for our pilots, and that OUR PILOTS decide on any contract, not "behind the curtain" leaders... whomever they are.
Also, because of the nature of the message of "FOPA", that is, rather than not getting on the ballot, but just asking you to not vote, and some of the language, we do not throw out the possibility that these pilots may be working with management to do anything to defeat the vote, and take away the incredible momentum our union drive has.
If you have any questions regarding the 1108, or anything you may hear or had brought up from "fopa", please e-mail us at [email protected] (note: that's not a yahoo.com address).
We are not worried about "FOPA" being a real threat to our drive. There may be fence sitters who are so scared of the word "union' that they may not vote, but what they may not realize, is that "FOPA" would be a union as well - the only difference is that we would not be able to elect their leaders until after they get ahold of our contract negotiating. We would think that a fence sitter would rather have a democratically elected union leadership than usurped power grabbing like these FOPA pilots are suggesting.
Please send us any "FOPA" correspondence you may come across. Some of the stuff they have said in this message are illegal, which reeks of anti-union mentality.
All we want is a fair vote, fair representation and a fair contract. We believe the 1108 can give us that, and that this "FOPA" is far from being professional enough to measure up.
LX
Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
Pilots 4 Pilots
Which according to their own time schedule, would be AFTER they have already negotiated on your behalf, and they are already "in power" over you, as much as a PRT-type committee could be in charge of your pay, etc. - they would have no authority, and the company would have no legal reason to negotiate with them in good faith.
Note: We did not receive any e-mail attachment. We received this blackberry e-mail from several pilots that have sent in their cards and who plan on voting for the 1108.
In closure, IF YOU WANT FOPA REPRESENTATION, do not make any contact with the NMB no matter what propaganda is used by the Teamsters. Any contact at all may be used as a vote for Teamster representation.
This is more proof that they do not know the NMB's voting processes. As has been said several times now, they could get on the ballot if they wish.
Contact Information:
If anyone has a direct question about FOPA, please email us at [email protected]. FOPA is in progress of constructing an official web site to provide information to the pilot group, until then pilots are encouraged to email FOPA and request to be placed on the email list for updates and any new release of information.
Sincerely,
Founders of FOPA
Feel free to contact them. We have nothing to hide from our pilots, we believe that they will be able to see through this charade of incompetence that these people, whomever they are, will not be able to provide the pilots the level of professional, successful representation of our pilot group that the 1108, and only the 1108, can provide.
Let's have a serious paragraph regarding the pro's and con's of an in-house union.
First off, what these pilots of "FOPA" want, is not an in-house union at first, it is a coup attempt to place themselves in power. We have a pretty good idea who is behind this, and so do you, and this is typical of them.
They want to place themselves in power, then present a set of bylaws that the company would sign and agree to, recognizing them as your representatives without you ever voting them into such office... and they want you to "vote no" on March 2nd without knowing who they are. That's exactly what they said, and we'll just leave it at that.
However, let's talk about in-house unions.
Southwest Airlines is pretty much the only successful in-house union. The next one would probably be American Airlines' in-house union, called the Allied Pilots' association. Next, would probably be Sky West Airlines' pilots' association.
All of these are in-house unions, and have great, average, and moderate success, respectively.
An in-house union can be successful if the relationship with management is good. Historically, this has to happen FIRST. We aren't in that situation, our relationship with management is terrible - we have totally lost their trust. Therefore, we cannot trust that our management would negotiate in good faith, which is the key ingredient to an in-house union being successful.
What happens with an in-house union that does not have a good relationship with management is that the union can be stressed to fight for their contracts.
"FOPA"'s plan of NOT paying any dues until we have a contract (which they never said would be voted on by the pilots), paying no initiation fees, and only paying 1% of our bottom-of-the-industry standard salaries, does not leave much money for negotiations.
It would be very easy to bancrupt the "FOPA" if Raytheon wanted to. Even if these pilots were to kick in say $1 million. Raytheon would know they could break this bank by laying seige on the association, and stalling out negotiations as long as possible. Our little 1% of our salaries would not keep up with the legal costs.
Another example of when management and an in-house union don't get along, is what happened to American Airlines' allied pilots association when they went on a "sick-out". Management wasn't negotiating in good faith and the NMB's mediators wouldn't release the union for a strike, even though they had a successful strike vote. The only retaliation their pilots could do was plan a sick-out, and try to put a hurt on the company.
The company took them to court, and the judge imposed a $10 million fine on the pilots - it nearly bankrupted their union (which is thousands of pilots who make a lot more money than we make), and they still have not recovered - but the company did bust their union, who now doesn't have the money to fight for a good contract.
That would not be possible with 1108. We have the 1.4 million dues-paying members of the teamsters behind us - however, nearly all of our dues, 78%, goes to our local for our use. We have the BEST of both worlds - an in-house union, with EVERY SINGLE ADVANTAGE the "fopa" pilots listed, with national union support to back us up, so that we do not have to worry about the expensive legal fees of filing hundreds and hundreds of grievances, and expensive contract negotiations.
"FOPA" can't offer those protections. They don't offer elections before bargaining. They don't tell us "who" their "temporary" leaders who would be bargaining for us would be, and they don't even understand the NMB's legal processes.
Knowing all this, how could one possibly, even for a second, think of having these people represent us? It is unfathomable that they would even try it.
We have faith in the 1108. We have seen it function, and what it has done for Net Jets. We have sweated hours with their leadership in helping our pilots get the NMB to establish a vote for our pilots. We will hold elections as soon as possible after the election is over and trust our elected leaders to work with the successful leaders of net jet's 1108 to start negotiations in good faith with our management, and we know that the by-laws that the 1108 operate under are FAIR for our pilots, and that OUR PILOTS decide on any contract, not "behind the curtain" leaders... whomever they are.
Also, because of the nature of the message of "FOPA", that is, rather than not getting on the ballot, but just asking you to not vote, and some of the language, we do not throw out the possibility that these pilots may be working with management to do anything to defeat the vote, and take away the incredible momentum our union drive has.
If you have any questions regarding the 1108, or anything you may hear or had brought up from "fopa", please e-mail us at [email protected] (note: that's not a yahoo.com address).
We are not worried about "FOPA" being a real threat to our drive. There may be fence sitters who are so scared of the word "union' that they may not vote, but what they may not realize, is that "FOPA" would be a union as well - the only difference is that we would not be able to elect their leaders until after they get ahold of our contract negotiating. We would think that a fence sitter would rather have a democratically elected union leadership than usurped power grabbing like these FOPA pilots are suggesting.
Please send us any "FOPA" correspondence you may come across. Some of the stuff they have said in this message are illegal, which reeks of anti-union mentality.
All we want is a fair vote, fair representation and a fair contract. We believe the 1108 can give us that, and that this "FOPA" is far from being professional enough to measure up.
LX
Get your CONTRACT ASAP!
Pilots 4 Pilots
ProFracPilot
What's it doing now?
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- May 1, 2003
- Posts
- 701
FracCapt
Clown punchers, unite!
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2004
- Posts
- 1,415
I didn't read every message....because...well, it's long winded, and I don't need any convincing....so disregard if it's already been said.
When you open the file on your home PC, click File and Properties. As Frac Rat said, it includes the name of the person who wrote the "FOPA Handbook"(a Beechjet Captain slightly over 54% down from the top of the seniority list), but mine also includes "A group of us are attempting to organize an ANTI UNION effort" under Title.
Isn't this guy one of the guys that is part of Barry's "hotel committee"?
When you open the file on your home PC, click File and Properties. As Frac Rat said, it includes the name of the person who wrote the "FOPA Handbook"(a Beechjet Captain slightly over 54% down from the top of the seniority list), but mine also includes "A group of us are attempting to organize an ANTI UNION effort" under Title.
Isn't this guy one of the guys that is part of Barry's "hotel committee"?
Fozzy
Well-known member
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- Posts
- 889
gunfyter
Well-known member
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- Mar 25, 2002
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Voice Of Reason
Reading Is Fundamental !
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2004
- Posts
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Hang it up Joe, you've already been outed on another board
You aren't running this whole anti-union show on your own are you? You're going to be busy having to post as "all these interested people" wanting "FOPA". What a pathetic joke. It is WAYYYYY too late for that garbage. Where were all these private union "organizers" well over a year ago? THEN I would have considered a private union (a REAL one, not an "in house" Raytheon funded scam).
IBT 1108 has proven their record (and quickly as soon as they broke away from the truckers)...and will serve as a template, which can only make things go that much further.
If you think ANYONE believes that this SUDDEN newly union "organized" out of nowhere alleged union is legit or going to help ANYONE other than mgt, you are delusional.
:uzi: What on EARTH is this company so AFRAID of I wonder???
From RTA/Flops Pilots Board:
NJAdudeSaysBEWARE
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:11 am)
Guess Who
I can name this poster in one note. Initials JK, former Usair Express/PSA, now I am told Check Airman at FLOPs. This d*ck pulled the same stuff at his last job. Union shop, but wouldn't "join". There's one of your moles
From the Hangar Fract board:
Today, 09:07 #24
Schmeddley
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: DO-328, HS-125, CE560
Ratings: ATP
Total Time: 8000
Posts: 4
Getting a union at Flight Options would be a huge mistake. I know for a fact that good things will come if we can shoot this thing down. Pay is gonna get better, tier 3 guys are soon to get relief. If you vote this thing in, your gonna pay due's for something that is gonna takes years bear fruit. Vote this thing down and results will be immediate.
For those that say a union will stop the company from taking more away from you, call a Delta pilot and ask how he likes his 65% pay reduction. There isn't a union in the world that is gonna get you money that the company doesnt have. All a union does is take money from the pilots and divides us from managment. Give Bob Tyler a chance, he is good people and is gonna help us.
Hmmmmmm
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:58 am)
Would that be "Help is on the way?" (re: company board)
Guess he has a different idea of help.
If BT were to do his job and stop the union
and give a big pretend package, past history would dictate he them be replaced with someone who will take it all away.
It just won't work, this time, guys
You've pushed ALL of us too far.
I can see where it could be that person (JK) if the types do match up. The Do328 is the giveaway, don't see it a whole lot, in addition to the CA position.
Was he flying at the time he posted that this morning or in the office (or home)?
Laughing
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 1:32 pm)
How quickly he stops posting Guess he should have thought to use different types there
Wonder what the new incarnation will be?
I'm sure his last union will be happy to verify what the OP said about paying dues but not joining in a union shop.
yank
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 8:28 pm)
Sad, sad, sad I don't think Raytheon and their cohorts have any idea how badly they have pissed off the employees at Flight Options. It really isn't just the pilots. Folks the employee survey should have spoke volumes for the discontent at the company. I know James & Bob think they have isolated the issues. They haven’t even broken the surface. Raytheon could give everyone a 100% raise, retirement, medical, etc and people would still be bent on a union. The flat-out disrespect and lies demonstrated over and over can not be fixed with a sweep of a pen. No, the reason a union will arrive on very strong footing at Flight Options is the consistent abuse of employees by poorly trained, uneducated managers and supervisors. It all starts at the top my friends.
SeniorityNumber
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:13 pm)
328 328 means A LOT more than just a type he has (hint, hint)
NJADudeSaysBEWARE
Unregistered User
(1/16/06 12:32 pm)
328
In case the ever changing seniority list moves from what it was a few days ago, I don't want to make people think it was someone its not, from what the last person posted. Its
J. K _ _ _ r _ d. The types are identical and the rest from my orig post. TOO obvious.
You aren't running this whole anti-union show on your own are you? You're going to be busy having to post as "all these interested people" wanting "FOPA". What a pathetic joke. It is WAYYYYY too late for that garbage. Where were all these private union "organizers" well over a year ago? THEN I would have considered a private union (a REAL one, not an "in house" Raytheon funded scam).
IBT 1108 has proven their record (and quickly as soon as they broke away from the truckers)...and will serve as a template, which can only make things go that much further.
If you think ANYONE believes that this SUDDEN newly union "organized" out of nowhere alleged union is legit or going to help ANYONE other than mgt, you are delusional.
:uzi: What on EARTH is this company so AFRAID of I wonder???
From RTA/Flops Pilots Board:
NJAdudeSaysBEWARE
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:11 am)
Guess Who
I can name this poster in one note. Initials JK, former Usair Express/PSA, now I am told Check Airman at FLOPs. This d*ck pulled the same stuff at his last job. Union shop, but wouldn't "join". There's one of your moles
From the Hangar Fract board:
Today, 09:07 #24
Schmeddley
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: DO-328, HS-125, CE560
Ratings: ATP
Total Time: 8000
Posts: 4
Getting a union at Flight Options would be a huge mistake. I know for a fact that good things will come if we can shoot this thing down. Pay is gonna get better, tier 3 guys are soon to get relief. If you vote this thing in, your gonna pay due's for something that is gonna takes years bear fruit. Vote this thing down and results will be immediate.
For those that say a union will stop the company from taking more away from you, call a Delta pilot and ask how he likes his 65% pay reduction. There isn't a union in the world that is gonna get you money that the company doesnt have. All a union does is take money from the pilots and divides us from managment. Give Bob Tyler a chance, he is good people and is gonna help us.
Hmmmmmm
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:58 am)
Would that be "Help is on the way?" (re: company board)
Guess he has a different idea of help.
If BT were to do his job and stop the union
and give a big pretend package, past history would dictate he them be replaced with someone who will take it all away.
It just won't work, this time, guys
You've pushed ALL of us too far.
I can see where it could be that person (JK) if the types do match up. The Do328 is the giveaway, don't see it a whole lot, in addition to the CA position.
Was he flying at the time he posted that this morning or in the office (or home)?
Laughing
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 1:32 pm)
How quickly he stops posting Guess he should have thought to use different types there
Wonder what the new incarnation will be?
I'm sure his last union will be happy to verify what the OP said about paying dues but not joining in a union shop.
yank
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 8:28 pm)
Sad, sad, sad I don't think Raytheon and their cohorts have any idea how badly they have pissed off the employees at Flight Options. It really isn't just the pilots. Folks the employee survey should have spoke volumes for the discontent at the company. I know James & Bob think they have isolated the issues. They haven’t even broken the surface. Raytheon could give everyone a 100% raise, retirement, medical, etc and people would still be bent on a union. The flat-out disrespect and lies demonstrated over and over can not be fixed with a sweep of a pen. No, the reason a union will arrive on very strong footing at Flight Options is the consistent abuse of employees by poorly trained, uneducated managers and supervisors. It all starts at the top my friends.
SeniorityNumber
Unregistered User
(1/14/06 10:13 pm)
328 328 means A LOT more than just a type he has (hint, hint)
NJADudeSaysBEWARE
Unregistered User
(1/16/06 12:32 pm)
328
In case the ever changing seniority list moves from what it was a few days ago, I don't want to make people think it was someone its not, from what the last person posted. Its
J. K _ _ _ r _ d. The types are identical and the rest from my orig post. TOO obvious.
Last edited:
Voice Of Reason
Reading Is Fundamental !
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2004
- Posts
- 1,369
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