ALPA's Next President

[PCL_128]

At the Board of Directors meeting coming up in October, the election for ALPA's President will take place. All of your status reps will be voting, and you are charged with letting your reps know how you feel. Many pilots on this message board constantly complain about Captain Woerth, so now is your chance to let your elected reps know how you want them to vote this fall.

It can be assumed that Captain Woerth will be running for re-election. The only challenger that I am currently aware of is ASTAR MEC Chairman Dan Brannan. His campaign committee has created a website if you are interested: http://www.danbrannan.com/

If you want change, then you have to get involved, become more informed, and let your reps know how you feel. Don't be that typical line pilot that is completely clueless on how his own union operates. Remember, ALPA is a democracy.

 

[pianoman]

Damn straight. If you constantly complain about ALPA leadership, now's your chance to look at the candidates, contact your rep, and let them know how you feel.

Very few people actually take the time to do this, so your voice probably carries more weight than you think.

 

[filejw]

Maybe I missed something but his web site doesn't say what he plan's on doing to straighten things out. Asking everybody questions is not a plan.I want to know what he is going to do to move ALPA forward.

 

[TAWS]

What's the deal here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you HAVE to be bald with a 'tache to run, or what??????????????????????????

 

[asqmatt]

Maybe I missed something but his web site doesn't say what he plan's on doing to straighten things out. Asking everybody questions is not a plan.I want to know what he is going to do to move ALPA forward.

I don't know if they are doing to move forward with their office staff striking and marching infront of flight saftey today.

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL thanks for the link.

During this time Dan became acutely aware of the division within ALPA. He recognized that ALPA was divided by carrier size, in that the larger carriers had many different issues and a much different perspective than did those who represented the pilots flying for the smaller carriers. He believed that this division had the potential to do far greater damage to us, our profession, and our careers than did any single other issue. In typical Dan Brannan fashion he stewed and thought about this until he finally made the decision to run for one of the top four National Offices, Vice President of Administration.

Of course the big carriers will have a hard time voting for a small carrier guy. It would take a heck of an effort to organize all the smaller MEC's. After all, many of our MEC's are so caught up trying to curry favor from National that you rarely hear anyone be candid about the complete failure of ALPA on a national level.

 

[EMB Skillz]

You guys should not support any ALPA president who does not advocate better pay and larger equipment for regional pilots.

 

[ironspud]

This thread brings up a really good point.

For example: Just how many voting MEC/LEC rep's are there? Are there more LCC and Regional voters than there are Dinosaur reps?

Do the Dinosaur Reps get more votes than the others?

This may be an excellent time to wrest control from the UAL/AAA/DL/NW voting block.

Good luck!!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

There is not a better running mate than that guy?

 

[PCL_128]

This thread brings up a really good point.

For example: Just how many voting MEC/LEC rep's are there? Are there more LCC and Regional voters than there are Dinosaur reps?

Do the Dinosaur Reps get more votes than the others?

This may be an excellent time to wrest control from the UAL/AAA/DL/NW voting block.

Good luck!!

BOD votes are handled by rollcall votes. That means that each rep gets one vote for each pilot he represents. For instance, Captain Rep Ray Miller of NWA Council 20 represents about 1000 Captains. He gets to place one vote for each one of those pilots. So, in order for the small airlines to get control, there has to be more total pilots at the smaller airlines. We are approaching that point already.

The problem is that all of the reps from the smaller airlines would have to coordinate with each other in order to have any real power. The sheer numbers of regional/cargo/LCC pilots may be almost as big as the legacy pilot groups, but they are spread out among dozens of airlines rather than grouped together in a handful of legacy carriers. It's much easier to coordinate the reps from four airlines than it is to coordinate the reps from forty airlines.

 

[doh]

You guys should not support any ALPA president who does not advocate better pay and larger equipment for regional pilots.

I advocate better pay and larger a/c for regional pilots! You apply, interview, and get hired at a carrier that flies larger a/c for better pay! Are you voting for me yet? Remember, early and often... early and often.:beer:

 

[blueridge71]

I didn't learn much from Dan Brannan's website, but his campaign slogan could be "I'm Not Duane Woerth" and I'd vote for him.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I didn't learn much from Dan Brannan's website, but his campaign slogan could be "I'm Not Duane Woerth" and I'd vote for him.

Did you vote for Kerry...? That was his slogan against Bush...

Judging by your other post.. you can't intelligently criticize DW. I wish you could, cause then we could make some progress....

Finally, unless you are a Delegate at the BOD, you can't vote for anyone, albeit DB......

Maybe you knew that....maybe you didn't...

 

[filejw]

OK so nobody has any ideas that would benefit all of us so....No wholly owned subsidiaries or if they do one list . Use ALPA merger policy.No fee for departure, code share only so both company's take a risk on a route.And finally a nation wide contract amendable on the same date for all and hopefully negotiated with one entity like the Air Transport Association.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

OK so nobody has any ideas that would benefit all of us so....No wholly owned subsidiaries or if they do one list . Use ALPA merger policy.No fee for departure, code share only so both company's take a risk on a route.And finally a nation wide contract amendable on the same date for all and hopefully negotiated with one entity like the Air Transport Association.

AMEN!

No regional pilots, but rather Airline pilots. ONE SENIORITY LIST, ONE BRAND, ONE CONTRACT STANDARD FOR ALL PILOTS WITHIN THAT BRAND.

You guys should not support any ALPA president who does not advocate better pay and larger equipment for regional pilots.

HELL NO! No more outsourcing. INTEGRATION is the only solution to this downward spiral

Lets send Duane back to the line, and lets bring somebody with COJONES!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Sounds like he's spewing the same old crap. Woerthless....excuse me......KAP-E-TAAN WOERTHLESS spews the same crap. We need to be strong, unify!!! Woo woo!! ......then he does nothing. I suppose I'd give this guy a chance, just like Bush. When it comes between him and Woerthless, I'd have to vote for Brannan, simply because he is NOT Duane Woerthless. Of course, I ain't no airline pilot anymore, so all this is moot.

Captain Woerth.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Bringupthebird]

What's the deal here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you HAVE to be bald with a 'tache to run, or what??????????????????????????

What can I say? Sex sells.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Did you vote for Kerry...? That was his slogan against Bush...

Judging by your other post.. you can't intelligently criticize DW. I wish you could, cause then we could make some progress....

Finally, unless you are a Delegate at the BOD, you can't vote for anyone, albeit DB......

Maybe you knew that....maybe you didn't...

So why can't ALPA have a membership vote for president? Do they think the "Average Line Pilot" is too stupid?

 

[Ready2Fly]

Evidently

 

[~~~^~~~]

There is only one situation where I would vote for Hillary Clinton - If she were running against Duane Woerth.

 

[blueridge71]

Did you vote for Kerry...? That was his slogan against Bush...

Judging by your other post.. you can't intelligently criticize DW. I wish you could, cause then we could make some progress....

Finally, unless you are a Delegate at the BOD, you can't vote for anyone, albeit DB......

Maybe you knew that....maybe you didn't...

Why don't you tell me what is so great about Duane Woerth? Educate me.

I'm aware of the ALPA by-laws. I think that topic was discussed earlier in the thread. Hence, the use of the term "I would" rather than "I will."

 

[BluDevAv8r]

So why can't ALPA have a membership vote for president? Do they think the "Average Line Pilot" is too stupid?

So why don't we as American citizens vote for the President of the US? Am I too stupid? Or is it because we live in a representational form of democracy?

-Neal

 

[81Horse]

... Am I too stupid? Or is it because we live in a representational form of democracy?

Don't you ever watch Leno's "Jaywalking?" Americans are too stoopid to know what a representational form of democracy is.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So why don't we as American citizens vote for the President of the US? Am I too stupid? Or is it because we live in a representational form of democracy?

-Neal

Completely irrelevant comparison. The demographic among pilots in a union is far more homogenous than the US public at large. So toss that red herring back. Next!

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'll save you the time. It's because 3 airlines want to use your money to push their agenda. A truly democratic union would be the end of their power and they know it.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Completely irrelevant comparison. The demographic among pilots in a union is far more homogenous than the US public at large. So toss that red herring back. Next!

No red herring. How is it an irrelevant comparison? What does demographics have to do with this issue? ALPA is set up as a representational form of democracy. You vote by popular vote for your local status reps and they in turn vote for the MEC officers as well as national officers. Yet sadly, the lowest voting turn-out numbers are for local status rep elections. Interesting disconnect in my opinion...

-Neal

 

[FDJ2]

Completely irrelevant comparison. The demographic among pilots in a union is far more homogenous than the US public at large.

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

So toss that red herring back. Next!

How about a little thing called a CONSTITUTION. Both are governed by constitutions and both systems have a means to change that constitution. So get on it Sport, use your persuasive powers to change the Unions C&BLs to something more to your liking.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You are trying to compare the electoral college with the concept of representitive democracy. The representitve democracy allows for smooth orderly conduct of the nation's business while preserving most of the governance goals of a democracy. Thus everything is not a referrendum. In this respect ALPA's structure is fine, but it allows far too much power to be held in the hands of a few airlines. It is the equivalent of having only a House of Representitives. With reps from NY, CA, TX, FL and Other only.

The electoral college, on the other hand was not established to expedite anything. It was there to act as a check on an electorate that could be whipped up into a frenzy during election time and vote out of pure emotion. An uneducated public could be manipulated to vote a certain way and the larger and poorer and less educated they are, the more they are likely to be manipulated.

The ALPA pilots are largely the same as far as educational background goes. They show their resistance to being manipulated by merely dropping out of the process. Oh a few complain, some loudly and are branded as "radical" (ironically the early true unionists wore that same label, but with pride), but with the advent of dues checkoff, most are blithely unaware and see union dues as merely another tax with equally low expectations on return. Without a vote at the national level, they feel they have little power to affect real change, which is what the Bal Harbor crowd likes.

So Capt. Lineholder votes for his buddy Bubba as Captain rep and Bubba heads off to Herndon to have a full load of crap about the "ALPA toolbox" pumped into him (by the way, the keys to that toolbox are the same ones that open the War Chest and dammit, we can't find those either). So after Bubba has had his fill of crap and shrimp cocktail at the Sheraton, he returns home to tell the guys that ALPA National is solidly behind them. Laughing.

The lack of a popular vote for ALPA president effectively locks out those who, apart from being hired by a relatively small airline, may be the most qualified and capable. Name the last ALPA President that didn't come from EAL, DAL, NWA or UAL. If the President position was open to anyone in ALPA (really open) the half-a-million dollar paycheck might actually go to someone who could earn it.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

You are trying to compare the electoral college with the concept of representitive democracy. The representitve democracy allows for smooth orderly conduct of the nation's business while preserving most of the governance goals of a democracy. Thus everything is not a referrendum. In this respect ALPA's structure is fine, but it allows far too much power to be held in the hands of a few airlines. It is the equivalent of having only a House of Representitives. With reps from NY, CA, TX, FL and Other only.

The electoral college, on the other hand was not established to expedite anything. It was there to act as a check on an electorate that could be whipped up into a frenzy during election time and vote out of pure emotion. An uneducated public could be manipulated to vote a certain way and the larger and poorer and less educated they are, the more they are likely to be manipulated.

The ALPA pilots are largely the same as far as educational background goes. They show their resistance to being manipulated by merely dropping out of the process. Oh a few complain, some loudly and are branded as "radical" (ironically the early true unionists wore that same label, but with pride), but with the advent of dues checkoff, most are blithely unaware and see union dues as merely another tax with equally low expectations on return. Without a vote at the national level, they feel they have little power to affect real change, which is what the Bal Harbor crowd likes.

So Capt. Lineholder votes for his buddy Bubba as Captain rep and Bubba heads off to Herndon to have a full load of crap about the "ALPA toolbox" pumped into him (by the way, the keys to that toolbox are the same ones that open the War Chest and dammit, we can't find those either). So after Bubba has had his fill of crap and shrimp cocktail at the Sheraton, he returns home to tell the guys that ALPA National is solidly behind them. Laughing.

The lack of a popular vote for ALPA president effectively locks out those who, apart from being hired by a relatively small airline, may be the most qualified and capable. Name the last ALPA President that didn't come from EAL, DAL, NWA or UAL. If the President position was open to anyone in ALPA (really open) the half-a-million dollar paycheck might actually go to someone who could earn it.

Interesting view of things. Not a bad satire actually. There are about 66,000 pilots in ALPA right now. How many of them fly for DL, NWA, and UAL? My guess is that all have shrunk their numbers by about 25% to 30% in the last few years while the RJ carriers have increased substantially. America West and US Air probably aren't voting as one MEC yet but when they do, they will be a force and Continental is quickly approaching 5000 pilots themselves. But then there is the ExpressJet's and Eagle's of the world out there (each with 2500+ pilots). There will be some heavy politics being played this October in LAS at the BOD.

-Neal

 

[Tim47SIP]

It's a setup!

So why can't ALPA have a membership vote for president? Do they think the "Average Line Pilot" is too stupid?


No, because it is easier to manipulate the few than the masses. This is why you never see anyone other than someone from the big 5 become president. ALPA can guide its MEC's in any direction it wants them to go. Bringup is absolutely correct in his statements.