ALPA pro's and con's

[Rvrrat]

specifics are irrelevant

No matter the organization or the intent thereof, if integrity and trustworthiness are not held consistently only hypocrisy remains.

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

Re: Ludicrous

The fact is that ALPA or APA or whatever are merely organized nogotiating committee's. As a combined force, they have used their power to contract for wages that are more likely than not better than they would have been without them.

The rest is rhetoric.

I shouldn't even respond to you because you are so ignorant but.....you don't know what you are talking about. True Unions weren't started with airline pilots in mind but they are very necesarry in comercial aviation.

I've been a member of the two unions you mentioned. Yes they do have a lot to do with the quality of one's CBA but they run much deeper than that. You have scheduling committees that make sure schedules represent pilots desires. You also have training committees that get together with the company to try to achieve fair but just results in the training environment. Safety committees also exist. There is something at ALPA called the Critical Incident Response Program (CIRP). CIRP Can help a pilot get their head together after a traumatic life experience such a the death of a loved one or an incident in the cockpit. The list of OTHER functions the union performs go on and on.

I'm currently furloughed from AA and work for a 121 operation that is non-union. The way the company abuses it's employees from simple things like screwing up paychecks and sitting on them for months to pushing pilots into illegal operations DOES happen. You would think in this day and age that it couldn't but it does. Now since these sh1thole operators know that there aren't any jobs out there they will try to continue pushing pilots to enhance the bottom line. I miss my job, but I also miss the strength of the union. I don't do anything illegal but I risk my job standing up to the DO all by myself.

 

[dashtrash]

The best thing about ALPA is that it's NOT the Teamsters!

 

[FL717]

Since the subject title of this thread is "ALPA pro's and con's" (sp) I will try and stay on topic, however there are replies that have gotten off the ALPA question, and onto a union debate as a whole. First off... as several people have pointed out.. unions were not conceived or implemented with pilots in mind. Also.. to state or infer that unions are not needed or not important to pilot group employees is absolutely "ludicrous". To state this one must not have ever worked for a a non-union shop. Unions are a must, and believe me, they do MUCH more than "negotiate contracts". Re-read some previous posts for a partial list of what unions can accomplish.

On to ALPA, which is what this thread was referencing: ALPA is many different things to different people. ALPA has alot of blood on it hands, and it is a business... period. ALPA made some real mistakes in the last 20 years and hurt many people and are still hurting them now (people who don't deserve it). Nonetheless, it has accomplished alot, for alot of people. ALPA has alot of things to be proud of. It also has tried to do way too much for too many people, and has gotten involved in some serious conflicts of interest, for the sake of individual gain. Remember that ALPA has both National and Local persons that comprise the organization. These people do not always have the same agenda. ALPA over its long history has also shot itself in the foot, and shot other people, but what organization of its size, scope, and money hasn't? It does not mean that unions are bad. They are a necessity! I have belonged to ALPA, carried my card, and stuck with all by-laws, but currently belong to a in-house union that is a member of CAPA, and I have to say.. I prefer in-house union at this company.

 

[Rvrrat]

history is to be used for reference

Perhaps it would suit this discussion to set aside the historical aspects of what has happened good or bad and concentrate on what is happening now and what is being expoused as the direction for tomorrow.

In doing so, one might be able to make a determination on the merits of the organization.

 

[Publishers]

Organized

I do not think that I said ALPA was bad. Neither did I say it was good.

While you can point to this little service and that help to a member, for the most part, none of that would not exist except for the power of negotiating across broad segments of the business.

I personally feel that some in house unions are much more effective in that they deal with the problems of the specific and have no responsibility to the whole. While an MEC could be looked on as the in house aspect, the fact is that sometimes a national issue or problem can be dragged into the house where it is not a problem.