ALPA employees go on strike

[Tim47SIP]

What about D.W. and the rest of his VP's!!!!

You won't see the "management" in this case bashing their employees...publicly or privately. You won't see obscene stock options granted to the CEO for hammering the union. You won't see scabs brought in to break the union.


You wont see management giving back any of their salary either. Have you seen ALPA's pay scales? It is absurd. They talk about the pilots giving so much and we haven't heard a peep about ALPA leadership stepping up to the plate and giving up 10-20% to help out. Talk about hypocritical!

 

[PCL_128]

It will be funny to watch them come crumbling down.

Don't hold your breath. This issue will be resolved shortly and the business of ALPA will continue.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You won't see the "management" in this case bashing their employees...publicly or privately. You won't see obscene stock options granted to the CEO for hammering the union. You won't see scabs brought in to break the union.


You wont see management giving back any of their salary either. Have you seen ALPA's pay scales? It is absurd. They talk about the pilots giving so much and we haven't heard a peep about ALPA leadership stepping up to the plate and giving up 10-20% to help out. Talk about hypocritical!

Have you seen ALPA's pay scales? Not the hooey posted on the anti-union web site that considers all costs associated with each employee their "salary".

Duane's salary is indexed to the top 3 ALPA captains. He's taking a pay cut this year because his constituents have. He gets a dislocation allowance because he works away from his domicile. He gets expenses. He gets payments into his pension. He has a car leased for him. He gets medical and dental insurance. He no longer gets his NWA pension.

If it chaps your hide, ask your reps how they voted on the compensation and expense package for him at the last BOD.

If you think our employees (and Duane is one of our employees) shouldn't be treated fairly because we aren't being treated fairly...then you're dialed-in to a double standard.

Want to cut Duane's pay? Bring a resolution to your next LEC meeting. Want to cut your CEO's pay?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[D'Angelo]

Don't hold your breath. This issue will be resolved shortly and the business of ALPA will continue.

Your right ALPO will probably decide to just have the other workers in the other unit "pick up the slack" so to say. That way they save face. No one crossed a picket line and they still make themselves look good. Of course in some of your eyes ALPO could never do any wrong anyway. The seams are starting to split at ALPO. They either need to change the way they do buisness or be subject to a mass decertification effort that will be gaining steam some day.

 

[GogglesPisano]

D'Angelo:

Have you resigned your union membership, yet?

You still have to pay dues (since your contract was negotiated for you and your union will probably save your sorry a$$ if the company/FAA ever tries to violate you,) but you will no longer have to be a member of the organization you so much despise.

What say ye?

 

[D'Angelo]

D'Angelo:

Have you resigned your union membership, yet?

You still have to pay dues (since your contract was negotiated for you and your union will probably save your sorry a$$ if the company/FAA ever tries to violate you,) but you will no longer have to be a member of the organization you so much despise.

What say ye?

I would love to resign my membership just as soon as they will allow me to vote on contract issues. If they want to charge me maintenance fees then I should at least have the right to vote. I might as well pay the dues and be able to vote until we can find a way to end forced union payments. If they still want to charge me then I better be able to vote. If they stopped forcing me to pay fees I would still be paid under the contract. No way ALPO would ever allow someone to negotiate for themselves. They dont want to be shown that people are able to speak for themselves and they dont need an MEC to tell them when its ok to goto the bathroom

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53627

There are many issues, as anyone who reads my posts knows, on which I am highly critical of ALPA but there's a lot of misinformation and lack of information evidenced by the replys in this thread.

In the original post, only 4 of the jobs listed are filled by pilots, i.e., President, 1st VP, VP Admin and VP Finance. The President is full-time and salaried. His salary is determined by the Board of Directors, each of whom is an elected pilot representative. There are guidelines that govern the President's salary. One of them is that it may not be less than he could earn flying the line at his respective airline, including night and international differential pay where applicable.

The current President is a senior NWA Captain of the B747-400, international, equipment 1/2 day, 1/2 night. He is at the max pay level for his company. His basic hourly rate is $232. He has an 2.4% defined benefit retirement plan and profit sharing (now negligible). His international per diem rate is $2.05 per hour. If he were to fly the max of 1000 hrs per year, which he could do if he chose, his base pay would be $232,000, plus the international and night/day overrides. On top of that he would draw per diem of an estimated 250 hrs/mo. That's just the base and does not include the value of retirement contributions made by the company or any other fringe benefit.

I happen to have a personal friend who flys the same airplane for the same company. He is also senior enough to be on the highest pay scale. I don't know exactly how many hours my friend flys in a year, but I do know that it is NOT the maximum (he's lazy). His W2 last year was in excess of $350K. I'd like to see you tell him that he's overpaid.

The ALPA President has to live in DC, whether he wants to or not. He gets allowances to cover those costs. As presient of ALPA he can't live in a tenement and deal with the people that he has to. So, he gets an apartment, which I believe is in the Watergate building. It's expensive, as is all housing of quality in DC. Of necessity, he has to entertain a lot of politicians and airline executives. His expense allowances are not inconsistent with what that costs. He gets a car, paid for by ALPA, and someone to drive it (although he often drives himself). Having a driver sort of helps when you have to go to so many events on "the hill" and run so many errands on an almost daily basis. He's a politician, dealing with the high and mighty in DC, and they don't eat at Mac Donald's. To me, his expenses are justified. If you want to play in the big leaguse in Washington, it costs big money to do it.

I'm no fan of the current ALPA President, but his compensation is not really that far out of line for the job he is expected to do. You all need to be realistic. If you expect the man to be dealing with Senators, Congressmen, the Secretary of Transportation and Labor, etc., none of which he would have to do flying the line, then you have to pay for it.

The other 3 National Officers on the "evil" list are all earning salaries in accordance with what they could earn at their respective airlines.

Most, if not all of the other salaries listed apply to members of the so-called ALPA staff. These people are not pilots. Some of the lawyers and top level Administrators do have very high compensation. As in every company, some may be worth it and some not, depending on how you see what they do. There are two or three that I personally think are higher than they ought to be.

Enter a part of the equation that many of you don't appear to realize. Most of the other staff employees listed are unionized. Yes, that's right, they belong to labor unions themselves. Their "contracts" are the product of collective bargaining with ALPA. Many a time these negotiations have come very close to a strike as ALPA officials strive to control costs. Usually ALPA "caves" at the end. Now use your imagination just a little and think of what it would be like in terms of PR if ALPA, itself a labor union, was to be shut down by a strike. For practical reasons, that can't happen. Consequently, the staff have negotiated some very good contracts. By the way, the lawyers that are called Contract Administrators (CA's) are themselves members of their union.

Someone said the Contract Administrators aren't necessary. That just tells me that person doesn't have a clue. These people often represent several airlines each. They are involved in all contract negotiations. They play a role in every major grievance. They defend individual pilots before the FAA enforcement people. On top of that they often have to literally baby sit dozens of elected pilot representatives, who have the political power but are more often than not highly incompetent in labor relations and representation. Remember, the "representatives" are pilots. They are great at flying airplanes, but given the apathetic attention to their selection that is prevalent among pilot groups, a great many of them are not the shining kinghts in armour that you seem to believe. They do the best they can, but without the CA's the truth is they would not do much of anything but spin their wheels. Join the IBT or the IAM and you'll know what I mean. In my opinion, these people earn their money more than anyone on that list.

The CA's bosses are the high salaried "attorneys" on the list. Some of those aren't worth a plug nickle from my perspective, but they don't get there because they're smart. Remember seniority, the pilots shield? Well, they have the same system. Sometimes you get what you ask for and that is no less evident in the ALPA staff than it is in the left seat of airliners. Not all Captains are beacons of light, and neither are all lawyers. However, your "number" puts you into a lot of places you might not otherwise reach. Everything has an up and a down side and seniority is among those things.

Flight Pay Loss (FPL) is one of the highest if not THE highest cost items. The reps are volunteers. You can't expect them to give up all their off days and drop trips to attend required functions with zero compensation. When they do have to drop a trip for union work, the airline continues to pay them and the union reimburses the airline. That is the source of FPL. Not only does the union have to pay the airline the pilots trip pay, but it also has to pay the cost of that pilots' fringe benefits. Sometimes this fringe benefit override can be as high as 40% although recent concessions have lowered that. However, the override is a contractual percentage so it does not cost the union less until the contract is renegotiated. These factors are all a part of the cost equation.

One 717 fellow refered to fetherbedding reps and booze at MEC meetings. I don't know his experience, but as far as I know, ALPA doesn't pay for booze at local or MEC meetings. I'm not saying the booze is never there, but in almost every case that part of the bill is paid for by the participating pilots, not by the union. At national functions, that is not the case. I've never seen a local representative (within his own airline) get an expense reimbursement that included alcohol. Obviously I can't speak for everyone.

As for the BOD meetings. Yes, they are held in Florida. There are three prime reasons for that. 1) hotels in the Washington, DC area are a lot more expensive than they are in FL. 2) ALPA doesn't normaly hold its BOD meetings in non-union facilities. That limits the choices. 3) Finding a facility large enough to accomodate an ALPA BOD meeting is not as easy as it looks. Apart from that, pilots have to get to these meetings so, holding them in locations that do not have good airline access is not very bright.

None of what I've said is intended to "justify" anyting, but rather to explain some of the factors to those that may not understand. ALPA is far from perfect, but the allegations of corruption made on this board are not justified. ALPA's books are not secret from its members. You may not like what the union or some particular union official is doing, but they are NOT lining their own pockets with the pilots money. That is an unfounded allegation that has no basis in fact. There are no Jimmy Hoffas in ALPA.

We have as pilots many reasons to complain about ALPA's failures at the bargaining table and its internal politics but, in my opinion, fiduciary corruption is not one of them.

As for the efforts and the work of ALPA's staff, i.e., non-pilot employees, with very rare exception it is nothing but outstanding in both dedication and quality.

To those of you so eager to tear it down I say this: Don't sh_t where you eat; particularly not in public.