All ATP School in Long Beach ?

[MTNHI]

So I am trying to help out someone who wants to become a pilot. They will have there BS Degree shortly, in engineering. They have been looking at
All ATP school in Long Beach, CA. From what I have heard they are a good school. Any school is good or bad depending on the instructor.

So $60,000 +/- 0-hero. Most of the training is multitime. Some in an FTD I think. Which 50 hours can be counted towards the Commercial rating. But over all the price seems ok considering fuel. I know you can go and do it on you own at an FBO or small flight school. But they have there catches also. And seem to take longer. And given the cost of fuel. I think that you do not want to dick around. Just get it done.

So I am looking for some honest and helpful opinions. Just trying to steer someone in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.

 

[dueguard1]

New Pilot = Food Stamps

 

[Kharma Police]

So I am trying to help out someone who wants to become a pilot. They will have there BS Degree shortly, in engineering. They have been looking at
All ATP school in Long Beach, CA. From what I have heard they are a good school. Any school is good or bad depending on the instructor.

So $60,000 +/- 0-hero. Most of the training is multitime. Some in an FTD I think. Which 50 hours can be counted towards the Commercial rating. But over all the price seems ok considering fuel. I know you can go and do it on you own at an FBO or small flight school. But they have there catches also. And seem to take longer. And given the cost of fuel. I think that you do not want to dick around. Just get it done.

So I am looking for some honest and helpful opinions. Just trying to steer someone in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.

They have a good reputation and years of experience. If he has the coin then I would recommend them. I would think he would also be able to instruct with them after he completes his training. Also, timing and making contacts are big factors in this industry. I'm sure that a big flight school like ALL-ATPs has various contacts with airlines or 135 operators. The sooner he can get on at an early age with an air carrier the better.

 

[daviator]

Better to find someone with an MEI and buy a cheap twin and then fly the dog Sh#t out of it. Did it with a friend paid 22,000 put 10% down. Payments were cheap after about 250 hours sold it for $25,000. Better still, have him become a bankruptcy lawyer.

 

[waveflyer]

ATP is fine, but it's fast. The problem with less than a year places is you have to be real disciplined to study and soak it all in. Your friend's an engineer so I'd bet on him. But there's also a danger for the engineer pilot in those programs- they'll put one foot in front of the other- be very successful- but won't have a big picture correllation training- engineers are similar to doctors- they're so good at focusing that seeing the big picture is hard for them- they fake through that by puzzling together good understanding of individual things- but we all know what flying is- especially when new- it's way more about seeing and understanding a dozen things at once than brilliantly understanding and focusing on one thing. Long story short- if ATP is your foundation- it's hard for pilots to see outside the profile- and when things don't happen in line with that- it's a struggle- I've always touted a 2 year program- you see all seasons twice and have time to learn the art of flying- ive seen pilots at every step who STILL struggle with their training and flying after years bc they rushed their foundation. A ridiculous amount of material will NEVER be covered again.

But if your friend understands the weakness of profile training and can fill in the holes- be disciplined enough to keep filling in the holes - he can do well in a fast program-
As was said- it's a race, a marathon, but still a race. And that's a good analogy- no sense in getting out of the blocks fast if you fail interviews bc they know you aren't solid- or discover you haven't developed wisdom, judgement and common sense. Big picture stuff that can't get cultivated in a quick program. No time to get to the "ah-ha" moments.

But not discouraging it- I've flown w/ really good pilots out of ATP- just have to know what it is.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thats a great post Waveflyer.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

ATP is very canned. Know the booklet they give you inside-and-out. They're eager to get you through the program successfully. The best thing about them is the ME building and the reduced minimums bridge, if the airlines is where you want to go. They're also probably going to be the cheapest option overall, especially compared to part 61. What ATP lack is diversity in training and experiences. Same planes, pilots, environment, etc.

 

[labbats]

Agreed. Waveflyer said it best.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Thats a great post Waveflyer.

Wave's comparison to those who focus and/or uniquely see the big picture is quite true regarding individual abilites or mindsets.

 

[pianoman]

ATP is very canned. Know the booklet they give you inside-and-out. They're eager to get you through the program successfully. The best thing about them is the ME building and the reduced minimums if the airlines is where you want to go. They're also probably going to be the cheapest option overall, especially compared to part 61. What ATP lack is diversity in training and experiences. Same planes, pilots, environment, etc.

Well, it may have changed, but I know that when I was there we did at least two long trips from Seattle to San Diego, and another to New Orleans and Jacksonville via Mardi Gras.

We also hit Bryce Canyon, UT, Austin, TX, MN, Kalispell, MT as well. But those were the days when mgmt handed you a fuel card and told you to have the plane somewhere in 5 days.

Overall I enjoyed it a lot but it is for the self-motivator. If you are looking for someone to walk you through everything and spoon-feed you it may not be the best fit.

 

[chignutsak]

I think your friend's journey should stop right at the BS in Engineering. That's not something to trifle with, or waste with a shake and bake flying school. If he must fly, why not get a military commission and have uncle sam pay for it?

 

[waveflyer]

The true cross country is something unique and I'm still jealous of! I hope they still do that. It's also almost all twin, which is great and the airline connections are good- I just don't like everything being canned profiles- but I'm biased- I went to an old school seat of your pants, situational thinking place that would purposefully get you out of the norm.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The elephant on the wall is finance. If he just graduated with a BS and used student loans for any of it, adding 60K in additional loans will make it unsustainable on F/O pay anywhere. OTH if he can get mom and dad to pony up, he will do just fine as a regional F/O, as long as they have a basement and cash.....

 

[golfnpilot]

Long Beach is a great location to do the training. Good weather, great planes with two Garmin 430s, good mx on the planes, Signature FBO, the FAA examiner is fair and experienced with ATP if it's the same guy and there is a sim there to fly and practice your butt off. There are a lot of airline guys that go in there for the ATP or FE written that you can meet and network with too. A great experience for getting all of your certificates at a reasonable rate in twins. They train you just like an airline training program with flows and profiles so you are getting that experience right from the get go. If the airlines are where you want to be then I think ATP in LGB is a great place to get your work done. If your friend wants to get ahead before he gets there, have him get all of his writtens done. It's a ton of work but worth it in the long run. I instructed there although awhile back but I didn't go through the ATP program. It's a good school and location for training if it's anything like it was although times change. I know the scheduling has changed. And of course this is all contingent on a good instructor which makes it or breaks it in my opinion. The good thing there is if you don't like your instructor you just ask for the other guy/girl. The guys above all have valid opinions too especially waveflyer I believe he is exactly right. Call them up and talk to them or stop by and check it out to see what it's all about. Good luck!