Airtran or Jet Blue?

[Heavy Set]

Yeah, this is one of those dreaded questions... I know many people hate these types of questions, but this is an informational forum - right? I have already read a lot of the previous postings using the search function - done that... This is not meant to be flame bait.

I am looking for good pointers. I understand that geography plays a large role. However, I believe that Jet Blue has a small base out of FLL - so, living in the Southeast is not out of the question... Plus, more bases will likely open up in the future. Geography is not an issue with me.

Excluding the geography question, which would you choose and why? Airtran appears to be on the brink of adding either Airbus or Boeing 737NG aircraft and could expand a lot in the near future - much the same as Jet Blue is now... Southwest appears unreachable without a 737 type and a lot of praying... Airtran and Jet Blue appear to be great opportunities given their growth rates, nice aircraft and good business models (low-cost).

So, which would you choose and why if you had to make a choice?

Appreciate your help.


Cheers

 

[Flying Freddie]

I have heard of friends leaving AirTran for jetBlue. I have not heard of anyone leaving jetBlue for AirTran. When AirTran get a new plane they will have to pay for them.

 

[Ty Webb]

Uh, I've been at AirTran for over a year, and I haven't seen anyone leave to go to JB. In fact, I have only seen two people leave to go somewhere else- one FO and one Captain; both went to SWA. I've moved up 27 numbers this past year, probably 20 of those were retirements, 2 were the guys I was talking about, and a couple of guys got terminated . . . . . so I'd be real interested to hear all about your "friends" who left for JB. Now, we did have a few flight attendents leave for JB . . . you do know the difference, don't you?

Not sure what your crack about "paying for airplanes" means, because whether we go with Airbus or Boeing, either deal will involve re-writing all of our debt at a much more favorable interest rate, which will actually result in us paying LESS on a per-plane basis.

Back to the person who posted the question . . . Right now, I don't think you can go wrong going to either one. Over the course of your career, both companies will probably experience highs and lows, hopefully they will continue to do well. They both have shrewd management. They both are making money in the worst airline environment I know of.

I think if it were me, I would want to know about quality of life issues. Will you be commuting? WHat kinds of trips do you like to bid? Do you like longer legs, or shorter? What about upgrade? AirTran right now is probably 2-3 yrs . . . I know JB is faster right now. What about pay? I think that FO pay is higher at JB, at least the first year, but the Capt pay may be less (although the upgrade is quicker, so it probably evens out). Bennies? Our "B" fund is 10.5% company contribution, stock purchase is 10% discount, sell when you want, I would imagine JB is similar?

Anyway, either way, I don't think you can go wrong. How terrible to have to make a choice! Good luck to you, whatever you choose.

 

[Flying Freddie]

I know of three who have gone to jetBlue. They were all in the same new hire class of December 2001. They tell me that while they liked AirTran, they love jetBlue.

 

[chazman]

Whether you know of guys that left or not really doesn't matter. It can be an indicator of someone else's priorities but that doesn't mean it is the right choice for you. I think that Ty's analysis is very accurate.

Right now BOTH of these companies face the same Upside and downside.

Chaz

 

[Ty Webb]

There were two classes in 12/01. A total of 41 people were hired, according to my Master Seniority List. Numbers are assigned at the beginning of class. 40 of those people are still on the list, and the one who isn't was a woman who was let go during Indoc (from what I hear at the time).

So, please, tell me about your 3 friends who were hired in Dec 2001 and left to go to JB, yet they were never issued employee numbers, because it sure looks to me like you are mistaken.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Chaz you are correct. I would love to work at either of those airlines. They are both going in the right direction.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Ty,
Ask your Chief Pilot. Mike will tell you who they are.
Semper Fi!

 

[swaforme]

I know that Tim Flynn and Maury Gallagher were originally involved with Value Jet and I believe that they left when Value Jet was absorbed by AT. If they are still involved with AT I personally would have trouble going to work for them. I was witness to thier handy work many moons ago at Westair. Would not want to repeat that. If that were the case I would go Jet Blue.

 

[Ty Webb]

I know that Tim Flynn and Maury Gallagher were originally involved with Value Jet and I believe that they left when Value Jet was absorbed by AT. If they are still involved with AT I personally would have trouble going to work for them. I was witness to thier handy work many moons ago at Westair. Would not want to repeat that. If that were the case I would go Jet Blue.

I have no idea who those people are/were. Valuejet was 7 years ago. By October, there won't even be a former VJ airplane on the property. The VJ management has been gone for years.

I just love reading the garbage from people who have no idea what this company is like today, what our contract is like, what our pay/equipment is like.

I left a good job, post-9/11 to come here. I did my research, and it has been better than I had hoped. I have made more, worked less, and enjoyed working with the many great people we have here.

People who want to take potshots at us just make me laugh.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,
Ask your Chief Pilot. Mike will tell you who they are.
Semper Fi!

No need to trouble the busy CP of 800 pilots, just PM me the names, and I'll check it myself.

 

[flx757]

I know that Tim Flynn and Maury Gallagher were originally involved with Value Jet and I believe that they left when Value Jet was absorbed by AT.

I can't speak for the whereabouts of Tim Flynn, but Gallagher is in some sort of high mgt position (maybe even CEO) of Allegient Air based out of FAT (with some corporate offices in LAS).

And I agree with Ty. You couldn't go wrong with either company, and the choices you make should be based on what you believe would be best for you and your personal preferences. As for me, I couldn't be happier at AirTran.

 

[FL717]

Originally posted by Flying Freddie:
"I know of three who have gone to jetBlue. They were all in the same new hire class of December 2001. They tell me that while they liked AirTran, they love jetBlue".


Just because someone was in a "new Hire" class does not give them creedence to speak of an airline that they actually really ever "worked" at. How can you "like" an airline you never really worked at. BTW... I also checked the seniority list for Dec 2001 and I'm pretty confident IF they were really "new hires" they may or may not even attended class. Anyway, my point is that if you want to make an informed decision on an airline, ask and receive input from actual working employees, not someone who has no first hand knowledge, which as far as jetBlue goes.... I have none.

 

[Ty Webb]

We have a decent contract for what we do, which is fly short and medium haul domestic passengers in 117 seat narrow body aircraft. Our FO's are making what a regional Capt makes, and our Capains are upgrading in 2-3 years to make over $100K initially, and the guys at the top of the food chain are making $200K.

If that is, to you, somehow "settling", then please "settle" somewhere else, because I would much rather be working next to somone who is happy to be here. The Prima Donna thing gets very old, very fast.

I used to ride the crew van 12 nights a month with four crews from a "major" with one of the best compensation packages in the business . . . . that company had an awful corporate culture of complaining. Every night it was a contest to see who could say the nastiest thing about the company, and about management. God forbid that you actually thought that management at this profitable package carrier ever made a correct decision . . . if you did, better keep that thought to yourself!

That kind of stuff gets really old. You will find that pointless bitching is not appreciated here, and not tolerated by most of our pilots. Got a legitimate gripe? Fine, expect the full backing of your fellow pilots, but just plain bitching is poisonous. Save your troops for battle.

As Mark Twain said, "Most folks are pretty much as happy as they make their minds up to be". Almost everyone of us is happy to be here, and that in itself is worth a lot.

Good luck finding a position that you are happy in, and I mean that very sincerely.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Ty,
One guy was there for four months, another for eight and the last one for over a year. There were others but I don't have details of when they were there. There was one more guy who was Steve Clements sim partner.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I have ridden the Air Tran jumpseat on many occasions and the pilots told me that they couldn't wait to get hired by a major. I

That was before the new contract, the new equipment, and a sea change in the industry. Sounds to me like you need to stop living in the 90's, dude.

 

[FL717]

Furloughed dude:

If you "rode the cockpit jumpseat", then it must have been pre 9/11. Since 9/11 not only has the industry changed, but this litle ole' company has grown and matured significantly. I do believe your perceptions are based on dated time and information .. just my opinion only.

As far as us being an "interim" ... why? What is so significantly bad or different between AirTran and any other carrier out there right now? This line of thinking by you ....today... February ... 2003, just mystifies me (and many others) and leads me to believe that your thinking is out of date and out of touch.

I do hope you don't have an app in with us... right. You wouldn't do that would you? There are people (like me) who are doing our best to make a difference here, and make this more than a "interim" place, and want to reap the rewards that we sow, and I do not want to see people here that don't have the same vision.

Defensive... maybe. Proud.. you bet!

 

[flx757]

I think the "furloughed dude" is just baiting to see who bites. Either that, or he's so bitter at his own turn of fortunes, that he can't stand to see pilots happy to be working at a prosperous company during these difficult times.

I'm truly sorry the "fuloughed dude" finds himself in the situation he does, just as I am for all the pilots that have been negatively affected by the current state of the industry. I'm also very glad we don't have people with attitudes like his at AirTran. I have been in this industry for 25 years, through up and down cycles, with profitable, prosperous companies, and those operating under bankruptcy protection. Through it all, I have never been part of a pilot group that is happier overall than the one at AirTran. At most companies, it is constant b!tching about the company, how mgt is trying to screw us, how this job sucks..etc. It's not much fun to go to work in that environment. Fortunately, there is virtually none of that here. Everyone is upbeat, and the conversation in the cockpit is enjoyable.

I'll take no further bait from the "furloughed dude", and I hope the rest of you will do the same. I couldl really care less what he thinks of AirTran. Leave him to his "depression".

 

[Bally]

I was Maury Gallaher's personal pilot on the Astra Jet he used for himself. Could not have worked for a nicer guy. When it comes to business, he is brutal. Takes no prisoners, and could care less about the human factor. I watched him sell the now defunct Westair, then Valuejet, and ownes leases on many large aircraft to the majors. I am not sure his involvemen in AT at this point.

Maury keeps a very low profile. It use to crack me up to see this guy, worth millions, working out of a low rent office in Las Vegas and Westlake Village.

He sure does have an ugly mug. Use to be painful to look at him in the rear view mear of his jet.

While Maury would sell his Mother if the price were right, he does no how to run a business.

 

[DA50pilot]

"It isn't a bad company, I wouldn't want to work there for a career, but it is decent interim work."


If all you want is an interim work; then go apply somwhere else, and let people like myself who would love to work at AirTran a chance for an interview.