Airnet Barons

[erika]

Quick question...

I read somewhere that the Airnet Barons are mid-1970's models.
Since the Baron didn't get known-ice approval untill 1984 or so, how does airnet fly them "up north". Do they use them mostly in warmer areas, did they put the TKS system on them, or do they just go?

THanks
Erik

 

[jaybird]

All of our Barons are from differant years. The one's with alcohol de-ice go south in the winter. Other than that I know were allowed to go into ice, but I heard somewhere we had to do our best to get out if we encounter any.

I know someone has a better answer this, but I hope it helps.

 

[starcheck1]

Also..some of the older barons have been retrofitted with full deice equipment. The one I flew last night was a 70's model and fully certified for flight into known ice. I havent flown one yet that wasnt fully certified....but im up north so that is probably why.

 

[CMH Floater]

Ice in a light twin is overrated. Everyone makes it out to be this big huge nasty thing. Once you've flown through it 2 or 3 times, it's no big deal as long as your safe (weight-wise, alternate, and enough gas).

 

[upndsky]

This gets a little complicated so I'll try my best. The ice certification rules under Part 23 were rewritten in 1973. The problem is with aircraft that were certificated before 1973, like a lot of the older Barons, and the interpretation of FAR 135.227 which specifies when a plane can fly in icing. The way it is written, some inspectors interpreted it to say that only airplanes certified under the new Part 23 could fly in ice. However, the FAA issued a legal ruling on 9/27/94, titled ACE-250, that says that a plane certificated before 1973 can fly in icing provided it meets the requirements of 135.227.

At the company I fly for, we have several older Barons and would run into this problem all the time, where some inspectors would ground the planes because they weren't "approved" for ice. Now, that legal interpretation is actually part of our GOM. Plus our POI has said that our Barons are approved for icing.

I know this is a very generalized explanation but I hope that answers your questions. FYI, our Barons have boots for the wing and tail and alcohol for the props and windshield.

 

[erika]

Thanks guys! Got a call for a phone interview yesterday...

Not sure yet if I want to take a 1yr/$7000 contract though....


Erik

 

[starvingcfi]

are you kidding? you got a call and you're worried about having a 1 yr contract? it's just a freaking year.

...and you're just instructing now right? and you've got second thoughts about getting lots of ifr 135 night multi time?

tell me you're kidding. christ.

 

[jbDC9]

Thanks guys! Got a call for a phone interview yesterday...

Not sure yet if I want to take a 1yr/$7000 contract though....

I gotta go with Starvin' Marvin, uhh, I mean CFI on this one... forget the contract! Go do the interview, check 'em out.

Try to see this realistically; you're a 1500 hr CFI. You're not going to the regionals or commuters anytime soon; the airlines are hiring maybe a trickle of people and you're not competitive yet. Do whatever you can to get this job, it'll be the best experience you'll ever get, and it's only for a year to satisfy the contract. Chances are you'll be there longer than that anyway, but it's good quality time at a good company making pretty decent money. There is no downside to this, trust me, I've been there; it's waaay better to be trash hauling in a Baron or 310 than stuck right seat in a 152 or Warrior for the next year or two...

You gotta take that interview... it's your best chance at moving up in this messed up aviation world. You pass it up and I've got a half dozen CFIs at my local FBO that would kick your butt across the hangar for letting it go...


Former USC/Airnet puke, '90-'93.

 

[erika]

WHoa guys!

I said I wasn't sure! I am VERY VERY interested!
I haven't updated my info lately, but I am a current Part 135 on demand charter pilot in the Beech Duke and the Baron.

I would NEVER turn down the interview! It's just that I need to consider a couple of things.

1) I am married, and the wife has a good job.

2) I think I may be able to get a regional job in <1yr.

I would say that I am more likely then not to take an airnet job, even given the above. Although I do think $7000 is a bit steep.

Again, thanks guys!

Erik

 

[WrightAvia]

I would say that I am more likely then not to take an airnet job, even given the above. Although I do think $7000 is a bit steep.

Then you answered your own question then.

 

[starvingcfi]

i don't understand what the big deal is. you don't pay $7000 for training. you pay $7000 if you leave airnet within a year. also i'm sure it's prorated. so if you leave airnet in 6 months, you probably have to pay $3500. if you leave airnet in 9 months, you probably have to pay $1750. the key is, don't leave airnet earlier than you can afford.

that regional job you're expecting in less than a year may come. but it may not. airnet will provide a good job with a good company with travel benefits.

still worrying about that $7000?...have fun in your 152.

 

[boxjockey]

The $7000 is quite alot, but all of the rest of us gave a handshake on a one year agreement anyway. The benefits of the job are tremendous. I just finished a week in Wichita for Caravan training which cost that much, not to mention my initial training. The experience you get is great, we have the best maintainance in the industry, good pay, and the most fun flying you will probably ever do. Just my opinion.

box

 

[labbats]

I'd jump all over Airnet if they allowed me to stay in Omaha. If you're willing and able to move where they choose, I think it would be an excellent opportunity. Don't let the $7000 mess you up. It's not up front or PFT, just insurance for the company to collect losses should you decide to leave early.

Best of luck~

 

[erika]

Thanks again guys.

This is exactly why I was/am interested in Airnet in the first place:
Everyone who works there seems to think hightly of the company and the other employees.

Can't say that about most regionals!

Thanks,
Erik

 

[CMH Floater]

You only have to pay the $7000 is if you leave before one year. So, what's the worst that could happen? You could come to AirNet for a year, get 1000 hours multi-night-pic time, leave and goto a regional and then get furloughed because the regionals are gay. We have alot of Lear captains that aren't looking for other jobs because the schedule is awesome and it's FUN flying. Who wants to be at Vref 20 miles out on an ILS with everything hanging out? Have some fun. This is the reason we all wanted to become pilots, right? Look, being home EVERY night, working Mon-Thurs, 3-day weekends every week, holidays off, and you get to fly cool planes is a pretty good deal. The regionals aren't the only jobs out there.

 

[panampilot]

I think CMH Floater summed it up pretty good. Also, where did you hear about this training contract. I interviewed a couple weeks ago and Craig basically did the handshake agreement that I wouldn't leave within a year. He never said anything about a $7000 contract, and this was just a couple of weeks ago. I'm in the hiring pool and the contract is the least of my worries. I plan on staying for awhile because I may not be flying a brand new jet but my QOL is much better and the company actually knows my name, I'm not just a number to them. I'm nearly splitting my pants waiting for a class date.

 

[CMH Floater]

Don't sweat it. You'll get called soon enough. It's nice when you call the CP and he knows who you are.

I think CMH Floater summed it up pretty good. Also, where did you hear about this training contract. I interviewed a couple weeks ago and Craig basically did the handshake agreement that I wouldn't leave within a year. He never said anything about a $7000 contract, and this was just a couple of weeks ago. I'm in the hiring pool and the contract is the least of my worries. I plan on staying for awhile because I may not be flying a brand new jet but my QOL is much better and the company actually knows my name, I'm not just a number to them. I'm nearly splitting my pants waiting for a class date.

 

[upndsky]

Question for Erika:

How much 135 flying are you getting in that Duke and Baron? And more importantly, are you the "true" PIC, or a "copilot" that logs the dead-head legs?

"134-and-a-half" time like that doesn't count for much at the regionals. Besides, training contracts are non-enforcable, especially if they're based on a handshake. Go to Airnet and get the experience.

 

[boxjockey]

I talked to Craig the other day, and from what I understand, it is going to be a legal, binding contract. They had this in place awhile back also. I'm sure if you're in the pool you will get a call soon. They are running classes every 2-4 weeks right now and it doesn't look like they are slowing down.

box

 

[erika]

Yes, I am the PIC. Current 8410 for single pilot ops in both aircraft. But, I am not getting a lot of flights, which is why I applied at Airnet. And just to say it once again guys....

I THINK AIRNET LOOKS GREAT!!!

I'm just the kind of guy that has to think about something from all angles before I dive in. And for my wife to leave a $40k/yr job and move is something that we need to consider carefully.

Thanks
Erik

 

[labbats]

erik, i'd change your handle from erika bro

 

[uscpilot]

Erik
I am not going to get into this $7000 discussion
Alot of the guys telling you to jump at this job are single. If you have a job that allows you to fly nice equipment and see your family that sounds pretty good to me.
If you have any reservations about taking this job that should be it (and it sounds like it is), not the $7000.
Its a great company dont get me wrong. I have been here for about 2 1/2 years. But it is hard to justify moving a family every six months to a year, which means you have to jumpseat back home on the weekends. That is no picnic, you spend the whole time wondering if you will be able to get back. So you will do what I did and buy tickets half the time to ensure you can get back to work. You might luck out and get a run near home or bid something near home 6-8 months after you start.
Having said all that, we all knew getting into this that the first 5-10 years would require alot of moving. People who complain about this remind me of teachers who complain about low pay; they knew getting into the profession the pay sucks. Your family will have to be flexable.
I am sure you were aware of all this, and your intelligence has probably been insulted by reading my condescending rant. I just had not seen the situation addressed in this way.
This isnt me trying to keep the competition out, I have too much senority with airnet for you to affect me.
I am sure you know as well or better than me how hard it is going for long periods of time without seening your family.
Good luck,
usc

 

[CMH Floater]

You could luck out and be based in your dream city, which makes AirNet an awesome place to work. But...it might take you 6-12 months to get there. Or you could get it right out of class which is what happend with Miami last month. It went un-bid and the guy that finished first in his class got it. It's all timing.

 

[panampilot]

Here's a question for anyone in the know: What prop bases are available as a domicile? The list on the website is incomplete or has been changed because I know Birmingham is a prop base but it isn't listed on the website as a prop base. Thanks in advance.

 

[jbDC9]

It's nice when you call the CP and he knows who you are.

Except when you have a twin brother working there as well... on the rare occasion I called CMH about something, I got the standard question; "Which one are you, Omaha or Tulsa?" Took 'em awhile to figure us out.

 

[JBcrjca]

Yeah, and a few times CMH sent my paycheck to you and vice-versa...that was a bit of a pain. But other than that, what a great company to work for. Craig was one of the coolest CPs a guy could ask for. I don't work there anymore, so I'm not brown-nosing.

Ok, so back to the original topic for a moment...because I got bored with the $7000 discussion. My high time Baron at USC was good old 1653W, got a tad over 900 hrs in it. It was built in 1972 without icing approval, but was later upgraded with 100 amp alternators, electric prop heat, a windshield hot-plate, and heated fuel vents.... those in addition to the usual boots made it approved for flight into known ice. I used the boots quite a bit in TX and OK, but not nearly as much as those poor guys up in BUF, SYR, etc. It worked pretty well for me. What I hated was the planes with alcohol props and windshield. I remember doing a low ILS into LBB one night (covering an Air Exchange run, anyone remember that company?), using as little alcohol as I could to keep the windshield clear....and of course I ran out and had an interesting time landing and taxiing to the FBO. And of course you gotta love the smell of the alcohol seeping in thru the gaps. When I got back home, made a trip to the store and bought a big case of those little alcohol bottles....there I was on the ramp dumping each bottle into the tank while freezing my butt off. Ahh, those were the days. Looking back, I wouldn't trade that for anything. I need a moment to compose myself now...just noticed in my logbook that it was 10 yrs ago this week, my last trip for USC. I'm getting a little verklempt(sp?), so please talk amongst yourselves.

 

[WrightAvia]

"I'm feeling so VERKLEMPT"...(hey, do a search...it's what popped up)

http://www.danheller.com/images/California/SanFrancisco/FolsomFair/drag-queen05-big.jpg

 

[labbats]

manhands!

 

[CMH Floater]

Off Hand:

AGC BDL BNA BUF CMH CPS DAL DTW IND LUK MDW MEM MKE NEW OMA OPF ORL PHL RIC SDF STP TEB TUL ALB BHM CLT CAE AVP ABE

Here's a question for anyone in the know: What prop bases are available as a domicile? The list on the website is incomplete or has been changed because I know Birmingham is a prop base but it isn't listed on the website as a prop base. Thanks in advance.

 

[panampilot]

Thanks for the help. It looks like there are about 6 new bases than the website says.