Airlines fight for the bottom of the barrel

[AA717driver]

And there folks is the problem. Can you say "lack of self worth"?

Ok, so you're saying that I should just give up on being a pilot if I can't make $200k/yr.? Yeah, pilots used to make the same money as physicians. Guess what? With managed practices, doctors don't make what they used to--AND their workrules suck, too.

You go ahead and stand on the sidewalk with your picket sign demanding "fair" pay. BTDT. I'll keep collecting my six-figure checks...TC

P.S.--those here who know me can assure you I don't have any problems with "self worth".

 

[B727FA]

I think United runs a 757 or two from coast to coast with all 1st and business class seats. It has a name, but it slips my mind for now. I hear it is doing good, whatever that is worth.

You're thinking of "ps by United."

 

[AC560]

As to the original theme of the thread......

Your Business/First class customer who used to go to the airlines is long gone.

They didn't want to wait in TSA lines.
They didn't want to wait for the 120 people sitting behind them in steerage.
They didn't want to wait for surly airline employees to do their job.
They didn't want to wait for airlines to figure out their schedule.
They didn't want to wait because a little light bulb said that the third backup hydraulic system might have a problem.
They didn't want to wait in a taxi or limo because airlines only go to big airports and not directly to the resorts and factories.
They didn't want to wait at ORD, JFK, LGA, ATL, LAX, MIA, SFO, etc, etc for ATC to figure out which runway they were going to use.
They didn't want to wait at a hub (as in hub and spoke).
They didn't want to take the chance that they would get stuffed in a CRJ with no first or business class.

Your well-heeled customer wants the airplane waiting for them - - not the other way around.

Or, if you want to look at it the other way around, the airlines get the customers who will accept all of the difficulties listed above. Now, would YOU pay $300 to go one way anywhere knowing there's a greater than 50% chance that one or more of the above will happen to you?

At $600 round trip and knowing the airlines like I do, I'd rather fly a Cherokee to my destination than put up with all that BS.

This is very true which is why you see so much growth in the fractionals. If you are a small business traveling to odd ball locations it is much more cost and time effective to fly 3-4 people around in a company jet or a fractional then it is to go through the airlines (though sitting in economy class sure beats riding in a Lear).

 

[800Dog]

Ok, so you're saying that I should just give up on being a pilot if I can't make $200k/yr.? Yeah, pilots used to make the same money as physicians. Guess what? With managed practices, doctors don't make what they used to--AND their workrules suck, too.

You go ahead and stand on the sidewalk with your picket sign demanding "fair" pay. BTDT. I'll keep collecting my six-figure checks...TC

P.S.--those here who know me can assure you I don't have any problems with "self worth".

What physicians are you talking to? My cousin is an ER surgeon and my Uncle is a cardiologist and they make big $$$. There are some pcps making much less but many doctors still rake in huge money. My surgeon just bought a Pilatus. I am not saying you should give up anything but rather you should work on setting the bar higher rather than lower. 200k is no longer the norm because guys like you will do the job for less. Why would you do that when you could have made more money elsewhere instead of degrading the profession? Could you not get hired by the majors that were paying better wages and had better work rules and a retirement?

 

[XShipRider]

As to the original theme of the thread......

Your Business/First class customer who used to go to the airlines is long gone.

They didn't want to wait in TSA lines.
They didn't want to wait for the 120 people sitting behind them in steerage.
They didn't want to wait for surly airline employees to do their job.
They didn't want to wait for airlines to figure out their schedule.
They didn't want to wait because a little light bulb said that the third backup hydraulic system might have a problem.
They didn't want to wait in a taxi or limo because airlines only go to big airports and not directly to the resorts and factories.
They didn't want to wait at ORD, JFK, LGA, ATL, LAX, MIA, SFO, etc, etc for ATC to figure out which runway they were going to use.
They didn't want to wait at a hub (as in hub and spoke).
They didn't want to take the chance that they would get stuffed in a CRJ with no first or business class.

Your well-heeled customer wants the airplane waiting for them - - not the other way around.

Or, if you want to look at it the other way around, the airlines get the customers who will accept all of the difficulties listed above. Now, would YOU pay $300 to go one way anywhere knowing there's a greater than 50% chance that one or more of the above will happen to you?

At $600 round trip and knowing the airlines like I do, I'd rather fly a Cherokee to my destination than put up with all that BS.

Well, I paid full first class fare and was bumped by a college kid returning
from South Padre Island. How do I know? Because the plane was full
of nothing but kids returning from Spring Break.

I know most of these kids paid super-saver (yes, well in advance). But
it seemed to me the airlines were shooting themselves in the foot by
so doing. Here I am paying full fare 1st class(!) yet they allowed me
to be bumped. Are you kidding me? I'm pretty sure I'll never fly
Continental again.

As for buying into a fractional -- I clearly pointed out I'm not wealthy.
I just part with the cash, cash I don't necessarily have lying around,
to fly in better seats (unless I'm bumped!).

One thing I don't understand - why do airlines persist in flying
unprofitable routes? You pilots know the biz a helluva lot better
than I ever will. Anybody?

Being bumped is the issue which preceded this post. All I could think
was "why are the super-savers getting on the plane and the 1st class
pax being bumped?"

End of whine.

 

[pilotyip]

800 dog give me a break, "Could you not get hired by the majors that were paying better wages and had better work rules and a retirement?", being hired by a major is much an incident of luck and timing than anything to do with skill and desire.

 

[AA717driver]

Ok, now I see the big picture. Everyone else is supposed to fall on their sword so 800 can have HIS golden career.

See, 800, I've heard it all and seen your type for a couple of decades now.

I have a question: Why have NO Legacy pilots not taken a stand and said NO to their Ch. 11

contracts?

Answer: Because making $125k/year is still better than nothing and no one there has the balls to fall on THEIR sword.

I had a blast flying for TWA. I would rather have had my truncated airline career than a full 30 year career at ANY of the Legacies. It's about the people you fly with.

As for the doctors, I'm glad the one's you know are raking in big bucks. The ones I know are being worked to death and shuffled from office to office without reason. They know the train is coming down the tracks--they're already seeing the effects of the managed practices at the GP level.

Well, I've really enjoyed measuring dick-lengths with you. Gotta run.TC

 

[rspilot]

800 must have a real little dick cuzz he has to make up for it by insulting pilots that only make 120k......he's probably is just bitter about cleaning out lavs at his local fbo.....

 

[800Dog]

800 must have a real little dick cuzz he has to make up for it by insulting pilots that only make 120k......he's probably is just bitter about cleaning out lavs at his local fbo.....

Impressive coming from a MU-2 pilot. Enjoy your career. By the way, nice sentence structure. Should you not be on the wannabes board? Stick to flying little props.

 

[pilotyip]

Grammar police

Could 800dog be roid? or guppy killer. He does not accept PM's and instead of adding anything constructive to the corporate knowledge of this board, he attacks sentence structure.