$$$Airline Tran$port Professional$ Career Pilot Program???$$$

[daydreaminpilot]

Does anyone know someone who has been through this program? ATP claims that they will take you from Private Pilot to CFI (SE, ME and Instrument) with approx. 190 hours of ME time for $37,995 in 90 days. Thats a pile of money. Is it worth it? I have right at 40 something hours toward my private already. Its taken me 4 years and 3 instuctors and I still haven't finished. Something always seems to come up. I have all my cross countries, night, hood, dual, and solo time that I need. All I have to do is take my written over again (expired) and my checkride. I am 32 years old with a family. It will be hard to quit my already established career (as far as income is concerned), but I want to be a pilot for a living. My mind is made up. Flying is definately my dream job. The 90 days seems attractive to me but the $37,995 doesn't. It will be worth it if I can find a job after I graduate. Am I in dreamland or what? Somebody with experience please give me some advice as where to start. I can't take a whole year or even 6 months off of work without ANY income. Bills, Bills, and Bills Thanks for your help!

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I haven't heard anything about ATP other than what is on the forums. I am shure that others will be glad to share their opinions with you.

Could you live on a budget of $15-20k per year for a few years? Do you have the money on hand to spend a few lean years or are you on the edge and need a pile of gold right after to pay off the flight costs and other bills? If you can't afford a few lean years, I would suggest you take the slow route.

Is your family able to move if necessary or is it tied down? Pilots tend to move around and thus not being able to move will be a career killer.

Is your wife (and possibly kids if they are old enough to understand what is going on) supportive of the endevor? You probibly won't be able to do much other than to eat, breath, and live aviation while you are in the program. If you don't live someplace where ATP does training, you will be away from your family (it will be good practice for when you move to an airline) and it only adds stress.

I want you to understand what you are getting into. It can be a rewarding career but you need to cut through the myths that are out there.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Hi, Daydreamin-

I am a captain at American Eagle, and I do enjoy the job, but it certainly isn't for everyone. Eagh individual has to make that choice for themselves. I'm not going to try to sell you on the career, nor turn you away from it. There are plenty of overly-opinionated people around who will do that, and I don't want to be a part of that crowd.

That being said, I have to ask you, why has it taken you over 4 years just to get your private? You say that "something always seems to come up". Regardless of what school you go to, the name of the game is commitment. If you cannot commit to getting your private now, how can you commit to getting further ratings in the future? How are you going to work as a flight instructor to build your time? What about being on reserve when you get your first airline job? The whole industry is made of "something always coming up", except now you cannot put work aside, unless there is a dire emergency.

It does get better with seniority. You get off reserve, you bid for more days off, days off when YOU want them, and can structure your job around your life, but it is very rough in the beginning.

You need to look long and hard at your priorities. If you are serious, it doesn't matter what school you go to, you WILL get it done. But you need to make the decision yourself. The school will not make any difference.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Draginass]

I'm afraid that you're letting your emotions overcome your common sense. Do you have any idea of what is happening to the pilot, so-called "profession" these days . . . . and where the future is leading???

32 years old with a family is no place to start training for a pilot vocation. You can't afford it. You can't afford the high cost of just getting a license and you can't afford to take the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs (if you can get one) that you'll need to qualify for your next crappy job (if you can get it). There's always going to be some single guy out there with qualifications better than yours that'll take the job for less than you can possibly do it for. Salaries will continue to decline, pensions are all but gone, and the job market is glutted with highly experienced pilots.

Considering that it took you've been at it for 4 years and don't even have a license yet says a lot. 10 hours a year for 4 years equals "zero."

If you go through with this, I predict that it'll take a lot more than $37k by the time you finish your training and you won't be able to find a job in the present and foreseeable economy. At the end of your training, you won't have a job and you won't be able to afford to fly for proficiency so your skills will quickly atrophy and every month you don't fly, you percieved value to an employer is less and less. Your family will suffer and you wife will grow more and more bitter at your "chasing the dream" and never finding it. Look at how many pilots are divorced.

What are you going to do for income during the next year that you're out of work? What are you going to do for medical insurance? Dental insurance? Unexpected expenses?

I know all this sounds harsh, but you need to take the starry-eyed "wanna be a pilot" emotion out of the equation and look at it in the cold light of reality. The vocation of being a pilot is very very rapidly declining and you're starting out at severe disadvantage already . . . age and family responsibilities.

You've got a family now and your first duty is to them, not a some sort of false dream. Stick to the profession you have right now and stick with your family. Advance in your established career and fly recreationally for fun. That is FUN flying.

 

[daydreaminpilot]

chasing the dream

Thanks draginass for your honesty. That was what I was looking for. Maybe I need to just give it up huh?

 

[ATLplt]

I finished the career pilot program program in April and am now an instructor with ATP. I must say that it was the best thing I could have done. The 190 hours includes 50 hours of FTD time and 140 in the Seminole. During the program you get to fly about 75 hours of cross country time with your training partner which can be very valuable. It's amazing how fast you learn when you're flying a few hundred thousand dollar multi on trips across the U.S (with no instructor). Some people get to fly from coast to coast and others stay within their region.

The greatest thing about the program is that the price you see is the price you pay. Some companies only quote the best case price and I've heard of some people paying $80-90 thousand for their training and getting very little twin time. Besides examiner fees I didn't pay one cent over the published price. Housing was included along with hotel rooms and rental cars during the cross country portion of the training. Overall, it was a very challenging and positive experience.

Whatever you decide to do ask a lot of questions. A lot of flight schools seem to take advantage of the student so be sure to always read the fine print.
If you have any other questions about the program feel free to message me.

 

[daydreaminpilot]

The heck with it!!!!

I think I can do it so I'm gonna do it. You only live once. If I don't make it, I have enough background as an engineer to get a job almost anywhere. I'm the kind that doesn't just sit around and wait for something to happen..I make it happen! As for the replies as to why I didn't finish my private...well take a walk in my shoes and then you may judge. See ya in the AIR!!!!!!!

 

[avbug]

It's only money, right?

 

[daydreaminpilot]

It's only money!!!

You are exactly right. One thing about money!!! You can always make more.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I finished the career pilot program program in April and am now an instructor with ATP. I must say that it was the best thing I could have done. The 190 hours includes 50 hours of FTD time and 140 in the Seminole. During the program you get to fly about 75 hours of cross country time with your training partner which can be very valuable. It's amazing how fast you learn when you're flying a few hundred thousand dollar multi on trips across the U.S (with no instructor). Some people get to fly from coast to coast and others stay within their region.

The greatest thing about the program is that the price you see is the price you pay. Some companies only quote the best case price and I've heard of some people paying $80-90 thousand for their training and getting very little twin time. Besides examiner fees I didn't pay one cent over the published price. Housing was included along with hotel rooms and rental cars during the cross country portion of the training. Overall, it was a very challenging and positive experience.

Whatever you decide to do ask a lot of questions. A lot of flight schools seem to take advantage of the student so be sure to always read the fine print.
If you have any other questions about the program feel free to message me.

you could try being a little less obvious...

but he's got a point, ATP knows their sh!t
based on what I've heard and seen,they should just change their name to the "The Cheapest and Fastest Way to Get Your Certs Professionals"
may not be the best approach, but you'll get 'em in a jiffy

I wouldn't do it though, fly on the weekends instead, 32 may be a bit too late

 

[FlyinTim]

,...

I don't know what to say about the whole course...but I know an Instructor that just went to Las Vegas and did the 15 day CFI/II/MEI course....he said it was really intense..only 3 out of his class of 7 competed on time....But it was worth it. I am most likely going to get my MEI add on once I get my CFI there...mainly cause its only 1,500 bucks....and to get out of RI....Only place I have really flown...if anyone has any insight on that let me kno Thanks!!

 

[s0ldier93]

I'm strongly considering ATP also for the 3 CFI's. . . . . after i get my IFR and CPL done. There's got to be someone here who went there or taught there to sing their praises right?

 

[bobbysamd]

Career changing

I think I can do it so I'm gonna do it. You only live once. If I don't make it, I have enough background as an engineer to get a job almost anywhere. I'm the kind that doesn't just sit around and wait for something to happen..I make it happen! As for the replies as to why I didn't finish my private...well take a walk in my shoes and then you may judge. See ya in the AIR!!!!!!!

Not so fast there, Skippy. You need to think it through thoroughly. As an engineer, being thorough and analytical should be givens for you, and, respectfully, I submit you have done neither.

32 years old is not too old, but you have to look at the big picture of aviation hiring. Let's say you conquer ATP in three months (which, I feel, is an awful lot of new learning to swallow in such a short period). And, let's say ATP hires you to instruct, which may not be immediately. So, in the interim, you are still without income, unless you go back to engineering. And, then, by the time you build enough time to even meet regional airline hiring quals you will be way in the back of the line. There are so many well-qualified people who are ahead of you, and they're standing behind the furloughees awaiting recall, so it could be several years before your number is called.

Moreover, no one really knows for sure the future landscape of aviation hiring. It used to be simple; get on with a commuter, build your turbine, and get on with the majors. More and more these days, the majors are outsourcing their work to the regionals, which means that "glamour" majors jobs are shrinking. So, while it's possible, in time, that a regional might hire you, that regional might be your final stop.

Finally, as others mentioned, you have family responsibilities. It would be different, as it was with me, if you are your sole responsbility. Once more, it could be years before you reach your goal, if you ever do. Take it from someone who knows, even relatively modest goals can be set but are not to be reached.

Think it over carefully. $38K is a tremendous outlay. No, it's not only money. Disregard the glossy promises and bear in mind the hard work and sacrifice that lies ahead.

Good luck with however you proceed.

 

[VFR on Top]

There are a ton of pireps on ATP's career pilot program over at jetcareers.com.

IMHO, ATP is getting very steep price-wise. $38k for only 140 hrs actual flight time (and 75 of that as safety pilot)? Ari-Ben Aviator in Florida runs a similar operation, but for $10k less, you get 200 hrs in a Duchess. You do the math.

 

[Jetter2]

But will that Florida program hire you on as a MEII? After you graduate their program?

 

[TRLpilot]

daydreamin, i can relate. i'm 32 with a wife and son and am planning on giving up the office job for a career as a pilot. looks like you've received the standard answers on here of "don't do it!" to "go for it." here's my take...

it's not too late to start. i've been working at an office job for almost 10 years which sometimes seems like forever, then i realize i have about 30 more years of work to do! you still have half your life to live and i say to do it in a way you enjoy.

folks on here talk about how the industry is going down and there are no pensions left and you will probably not make $150k a year. i don't see how that is any different then where i am now, and maybe you too.

i do have some concern, however. it has taken you 4 years and still no private. it's just the first step followed by hills of work to do next (instrument, comm, cfi). you're contemplating biting the bullet and cramming through an atp course. beware, it's going to be a lot of work and it'll just be the beginning. those programs and then the possible job that follows is long hours everyday, and for months. are the wife and kids ready? and then the 2 or more years flying freight at night?

i'm taking a different approach. i already had my private and have been spending the past couple of years building my time and hanging around the fbo. there's a lot that can be learned by listening to old-timers. i'm enjoying the flying that i'm doing and now that i am starting my instrument i feel i'm ready for the next step. i hope to get my instrument and commercial done within the next year and then go straight into working on my cfi-ii. i know some folks say that i'm just getting further behind in line for a good job by waiting but the main thing is i'm not getting in over my head, and am paying as i go. i know someday the time will come when i have to take the leap of faith and quit my 8-5 job but when i do i want to be ready, and hopefully the industry will be in a good upswing, which seems to be showing a little bit of possibility with some hiring starting again.

 

[Jetter2]

They say you don't have time for a part time job in the program, so what do you do for cash to ya know, buy food and stuff?

 

[JB74]

so what do you do for cash to ya know, buy food and stuff?

Realistically, you would need to have that cash on hand going into the program. Add up all your expenses for a month (rent, food, beer, clothes, whatever) and multiply by however many months you plan to be there. That is what you will need to keep your head above water during that time.

 

[s0ldier93]

Hhhhmmmm....

Well. I'm 28, with my PPL and 100.1 hours. One Embry-Riddle (extended campus so no flight included) degree with two miniors. One wife. One 40K/year job as a technician. Over 3 weeks of vacation built up. And some VA benifits left over after the degree.

Instead of quiting the current job, I'm sliding into the flight thing instead. I plan on doing the 10 day IFR thing at my favorite flight school using a bit of vacation. Practicing CPL manuvers after work (did i mention that work was from 6 to 2:30?) until i'm ready for that ride. Then doing the 14 day CFI/CFII/MEI thing at ATP. after that, I can still keep my day job and be an afternoon and weekend CFI until I can completly replace a technician income with a flying one. Since my wife also works, we can afford me to make less if needed.

Anyway, I'm just saying, can you take it a little easier rather than doing it all at once like that?

OK, I'm done.

 

[bobbysamd]

Career changing

daydreamin, i can relate. i'm 32 with a wife and son and am planning on giving up the office job for a career as a pilot. looks like you've received the standard answers on here of "don't do it!" to "go for it." here's my take...

it's not too late to start. i've been working at an office job for almost 10 years which sometimes seems like forever, then i realize i have about 30 more years of work to do! you still have half your life to live and i say to do it in a way you enjoy.

You should read my response to daydreamin. above. Also, take it from someone who knows. Being hired as a pilot is among the toughest endeavors there is. Getting pilot jobs and climbing the aviation career ladder is not as simple as sending in your resumes and deciding which interview to attend. For every one hundred resumes you send you'll be lucky if you get one answer. It's not like applying for office work. I know about that, too.

You, too, need to think it over carefully before you forge ahead.