Airline Pilots Flying After Age 60?

[your_dreamguy]

Hello,
I was in a crew lounge the other day when an argument broke out.
Apparently, one of the pilots in the lounge was working in a fractional when we got a conversation started. After this pilot left for his flight, two other pilots sitting in the room, who overheard our conversation started arguing. The pilot I was speaking to joined the fractional because he had to retire from the major he was working at due to the age 60 rule. He was getting retirement benefits from the major he used to work for. He joined the fractional to keep flying but did not get the job for money.
Anyway, one pilot thought that it was neat that this person found a way to continue his career after flying for years with a major. The pilot who got in an argument with him was angry because he viewed this guy as taking a job desperatly needed by someone else.
What's your opinion? I'm not giving mine.

 

[pilotshan]

Good for the old guy. I hope to find a way to continue to fly after I am forced to retire, but who knows, in 35 years the rules may change. I just hope he knows when it's time to step aside and give someone else the chance that he has been so lucky to get in today's economy.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

"What's your opinion? I'm not giving mine."

Why ask for someone's opinion on this public board if you aren't willing to share yours?

GP

 

[wil]

God bless the guy!! In case people aren't noticing 60 today is not like 60 twenty years ago. I unfortunately lost my father when he was 50 but I look at the photos taken back in the 70's when he was in his mid 30's and he looks a hell of lot older than I do now at 36. Take the long view because we all will be there one day and those (historically speaking) years 55-65 (for a normal job) are the best financially!! And, nobody ever no anothers financial situation and given the confistictory, class warfare, upside down tax code we will all be working (or flying) into the grave. All the best- Wil

 

[mar]

Double dipping?

It does kinda seem like he's double dipping the system. He's had his career, why not move over?

Same with 60+ FEs. Leave the seat for someone else. Right? You've had your ride.

Anyway. I can't really begrudge these guys a few more years in the saddle. But me personally: I think I'll start a little mom and pop FBO and I'll be the grouchy old guy who still uses Able, Baker, Charlie on the radio.

Seems more fun to me.

 

[your_dreamguy]

Your Post

I'm a little hesitant to give my opinion considering everyone seems to do nothing but bash other people on here. I was just wondering what everyone else thinks (those who aren't afraid to give their opinion).

 

[Beechnut]

I'll bash ya for not having the sack to give your opinion. If you're not going to give it, fine. However don't point out your unwillingness to contribute to your own discussion.

Good for the old guy. This "you had your turn now give me one" mentality of jobs is dumb. You don't know what his financial status is and if he's 60 and STILL able to beat younger, maybe quicker pilots, GOOD FOR HIM.

S.

 

[350DRIVER]

The pilot who got in an argument with him was angry because he viewed this guy as taking a job desperatly needed by someone else.

If someone "needs" something that badly then I am sure a small number of age 60 + guys are not going to hinder that someone's plans at the fractional level. If there is a will then there is a way and that usually holds true especially in aviation. I agree completely & 100% with the current "age 60" rule pertaining to the airlines but I do not think that at that point these guys should have to stop flying and not be "allowed" to gain employment at the fractionals. If there was no "age 60" rule in effect then it would be much more difficult for the younger generation of pilots to make progress at the airline level. The many pilots at the major airline level that I know who are approaching that "magic" age 60 have absolutely no intentions of pursuing the fractionals so I cannot see how a "few" would do any harm. -

Also keep in mind that these guys have done a great service of transporting the American public for many many years and they deserve the utmost of respect in my opinion. If one can hold a medical then I see absolutely no reason (s) why they shouldn't be given an equal opportunity to pursue flying after their airline days are all over and done with.

(those who aren't afraid to give their opinion).

If you are asking for "opinions" then with all due respect , being "afraid" shouldn't be part of the equation.

It does kinda seem like he's double dipping the system. He's had his career, why not move over?

Why should he.?? Does he not deserve the respect and appreciation for what he has contributed to aviation over the years.?

In a way he is as you put it "moving over" but I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to pursue the fractionals if that is in his best interest and/or desires. The "Age 60" rule will be in effect for ever which is good so it is my opinion that if anything he is allowing many others an "opportunity" at the airline level.

I am very confident that there are not too many age 60+ guys doing this to make some huge impact and harm others.

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

You don't know what his financial status is and if he's 60 and STILL able to beat younger, maybe quicker pilots, GOOD FOR HIM.

I will second this. Good for him and like the old saying goes "If you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the porch."

3 5 0

 

[WrightAvia]

double dipping is just proof that workin

really isn't what it's all cracked up to be.

Why on earth would anybody be working when they have a retirement from a 121 carrier in the bag? Lack of financial planning? lack of hobbies? no friends outside of flying?

I don't really care that the guy wants to continue to work after the mandatory age 60 rule forces him out of 121 flying, that's his agenda. What bothers me is that in this industry you are expected to sell your soul to the devil to work your way into one of these highly regarded 121 flying jobs and now the big problem is that they have to find jobs to make ends meet after age 60.

I know several guys that retired from NWA...they couldn't wait to go and one actually went before age 60. I also know a guy that was past age 60 and he was flight engineering at UAL till 9/11. This guy didn't have a home life.

I would say this as a final...when you spend your whole career trying to stay alive, trying to not get busted by the feds and trying to make sure that your estate doesn't get sued by the survivors of an accident/incident...why would you risk your neck, for a little bit of additional past retirement flying?

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, I am going to take the other point of view. I think that if the guy retired from a major, and is financially set, there is no reason that he should be taking a job in this market as a "hobby", but I have a sense of fair play that this guy obviously lacks.

There are over 7,000 junior pilots furloughed right now who may not be called back for several years. Meanwhile, some of the fat cat Heavy Captains don;t realize that they have anyone furloughed untilt they see them working at Home Depot.

This guy had his career. If he want to keep flying for "fun" then maybe he should flight instruct or buy his own plane.

 

[TurboS7]

I vote for the old guy, especially since I am going to be ther in 13 years. If a person says hey move over I consider that person very unwise and very immature. Moving from a large carrier to a fractional will give the older gentleman every oppurtunity to pass on some wisdom to the next generation. In a fractional the old gentleman will be able to experience some of the wonders of aviation that can only felt through FBO's and general aviation aircraft.

 

[Ty Webb]

In a fractional the old gentleman will be able to experience some of the wonders of aviation that can only felt through FBO's and general aviation aircraft.

That's right . . . the old duffer should experience the wonder of my heel, pushing him out the door of the aircraft, and into the FBO rocking chair, so that somebody else can put food on the table.

Now, that's a visual image for ya! The old man from the Monopoly game, flying out the door of the Beechjet, with his top hat and cane!

Hey, Turbo------------------------

Turbo- I'm trying to PM you about something more important than this, but your mailbox is full . . . . !!!!!

 

[General Lee]

I think the age 60 rule should stand. I know there are specific examples for people who would like to fly for airlines after age 60 (like their spouse has Cancer and they are using the medical benefits to help pay for it...etc), but there simply isn't a pilot shortage like there was back in 1999. There are plenty of qualified furloughed pilots out there waiting to take a job with the Majors or LCC etc. Back in the late 90's, they were looking for anyone to fly at some of the regionals---I knew a guy that got hired with about 300 hours total and 15 hours of Multi---onto a Brasilia. His flying skills showed that fact apparently. Now, with the huge furloughs and prospects of some Majors folding, I think there would be a huge glut of unemployed pilots out there. I know Delta and ALPA are not in favor of it---Delta would rather have younger pilots come up the ranks and not have to pay top pay to the age 60 guys, when they could possibly save a little money by letting a junior guy move up the ranks. I started flying the 767 in my third year, for example, and normally they might have a guy in his 5th or 6th year flying that---which saved them some money. Keeping guys around longer extends their "12th year pay" at Delta. We do have guys who are over 60 still flying as FE's on 727's---they are known as "ROPES" or Really Old Pilot EngineerS. And, out of the 300 of them, over 200 are on Medical leave, but are still being paid something like 60% of their pay. But, the 727's will be grounded soon and that will ground them, too since that will be the end of the FE position (thank God).

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[toneal]

If the guy wants to fly then let him fly, It does not sound like he is being selfish by "keeping" another younger person from a job but rather it sounds like a few younger people are being selfish.

This guy probably has a LOT of experience that he can hand down to some pilots in the fractionals. One day that 60th birthday will hopefully roll around for each and every one of us. At that point in time, we will think back about this thread and how we reacted to the retire after 60 rule. I am sure 90% of you will probably be singing a different tune then.

Here is what ticks me off...

Those pilots that are in it for the money, there are those of us that genuinely love aviation. If the passion is not there then get out.. This guy has a passion for aviation and I hope to meet him flying someday so I can play 21 questions. These kinds of people are rare and it would be a great privilage to meet someone like him.

I hope you all rethink what you are saying. This is the United States of America! He has every right to continue his career in a different sector if he wants! Sounds to me like there are a few greedy people on here.

No need to put this guy in a rocking chair at the FBO. Who cares how much money he has or doesnt have, how many airplanes he owns or doesnt own.. point is simple, by law he got forced out of line flying, he is making the best of the situation by doing something he loves to do. I hope to do the same when I am 60.

 

[dash8driver]

no kidding...

who cares what he does? he's free to take a job anywhere he wants. if he took a job at mcdonalds for whatever reason (loves fast food or needs to make ends meet) like you see many retired people do these days, are you all going to be bashing him from taking a job from a high school kid?

who cares what his reasons are? he doesnt need to give one, if he wants the job he can apply for it like everyone else.

the way i understand the hiring process, one cannot really "steal" a job from someone else. he probably interviewed along with all of his "vitcims" and he was the best candidate, or else he wouldnt have been hired.

we all want flying jobs...times are tough and the jobs are scarce but he's didnt break any laws or cross any picket lines, he got the job fair and square.

 

[TurboS7]

Ty---mail box is cleaned out.

 

[TurboS7]

Ty-I tried to send you a message but your box was full.(LOL)Anyway thanks for your messge I have heard the same thing your indicated with even a more interesting twist. I'll try and send the message again later. Dave

 

[dashtrash]

Capt. Depends can fly 91 & 135 all he want's. However, 121 is not and should not be possible. FLAME AWAY!

 

[Rick1128]

A couple of points. First I really don't care if an airline retiree wants to continue flying. As long as the hiring process evaluates each candidate fairly. I have a major issue with the retiree that will accept a wage well below industry standard. Especially in S. Fla, So Cal and Ariz. But this also includes retired military guys. I have worked with several retired airline guys, they are as a whole a great bunch to work with. Don't forget that although hey don't work there anymore, they are a great networking source. Afterall the chief pilot use to be their f/o.

The age 60 rule leaves some interesting loopholes. A pilot can retire off a 121 B757 and immediately start flying a B757 on a 125 certificate. Interesting.

And the guys being shoved out the door at 60 are the same guys that supported the rule when they were 30 and 40. Amazing how presceptives change.