Airforce fixedwing transition course ???

[walmartwannabe]

Next year, I will attend the fixed wing transition course for an Air Force Reserve B-52 pilot position. I flew helos for the Army Guard , but have over 4,000 hours fixed wing piston, turbine and jet. What can I expect at Vance AFB...???? Training time, aircraft specifics or any other important info ???

I would appreciate any info available

 

[HoursHore]

Be prepared to be treated like a retard. seriously. Go in with a sense of humor, know that 300 hour FAIPS are going to talk down to you, and suck it up, cause it blows. Talk to some of your army bretheren about it. Lots have gone through.

 

[HoursHore]

I read your post a little closer. Are you sure you have to go through with that much fixed wing time? Is it civilian time? regardless, a sense of humor is your best defense.

 

[walmartwannabe]

response to horshore

My fixed wing time is all civilian... I have always been humble around other pilots. I will deffinatley go through with a good attitude, after all I am there to learn right ??

Thanks for your input....

 

[46Driver]

Since everything is going "joint", there are some Navy and Marine instructors there - who more than likely flew helos as their primary fleet aircraft (I have a couple of buds instructing there now.) Be upfront about your flight time - they aren't going to care one way or the other, unless you try and hide it. Congrats on getting a B-52 slot - that looks like a lot of fun. And to PatMack18, remember the wisdom of Homer Simpson: "The Navy was a fine organization until the Village People ruined it....." Now its off to Whiting to fly a triple....

 

[CCDiscoB]

The last I knew the AF did away with the fixed wing transition course. The syllabus required so many rides the AF figured they might as well send the student through the entire UPT syllabus. I maybe wrong, but to continue my train of thought, you are basically starting from scratch. You are a UPT student. Don’t go in there saying “This is fixed wing transition for me, I’m already a pilot.” That won’t get you anywhere. You might be a pilot, but you're not an AF pilot.

We will however expect more out of you. In the flying department and the officership department.

Are you a former warrant officer or commissioned officer? If you’re a Captain then you’ll most likely be the SRO. My UPT SRO was an Army Captain. He was top grad.

As for all of your flying time, I’ve already written, in other posts, about the pitfalls of too much flying time and military transition.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Fixed Wing Qual is alive and well

As of last month, fixed wing qual folks went through ground school with everyone else and then split to a separate flight on the flightline. Don't try and hide any flight time and disregard any patmack18 advice-he's spent zero days on the flightline. You will mostly fly with seasoned IP's. No FAIPS are assigned to fixed wing qual, but that doesn't mean you won't get one as a guest helper...not that there's anything wrong with that-they fly circles around me. The Flight Commander is a straight-up guy and will be looking to do everytyhing to make your transition as painless as possible. Don't expect to be talked down to, but you will get honest assessments of your performance and what you need to do to pass your checkride. Nobody is going to treat you like a retard unless you happen to be one, then that's another story. Good advice from CCDisco regarding the experience attitude...Remember, you have to temporarily become a "Tweet Pilot" and play by a funny set of rules that will be foreign to you-not hard at all if you go with the grain instead of against it. They washed out an Army Major a couple of months ago and I've seen a (very) few others have trouble there. They don't feel a bit obligated to pass someone through that doesn't make the grade, but the majority of folks have no significant problems. Expect several months in the tweet and I am guessing you will go on to fly the T-38 for a few months as well. Most of all have fun and congrats on a sweet buff deal. If you like, PM me and I can email your questions directly to the fixed wing guy if you like. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any Q's you might have.

 

[walmartwannabe]

Thanks Guys

I appreciate all of the info you guys have offered. I certainly feel that I have the right attitude for the course. I have been in a similar situation in the airline industry and after being furloughed, I feel very blessed to have an opportunity to fly again. Fortunetley, I am already commissioned (O-2) promotable to
(O-3)... I was prior enlisted, OCS, followed by IERW at Ft. Rucker.... Got out of the guard after six years (state ran out of money) no AFTP's... Commuting to the airline job and the guard job was a huge burden..... Some great friends at Barksdale Air Force Base helped me get the B-52 job...

I will deffinetley be honest, not boast and roll with the punches through my training. I love the military and cant wait to get started. By the way, The Air Force will recognize my Army experience and grant me my wings before I go to school. It is my unserstanding that the fixed wing transition course is to qualify me as a military fixed wing pilot. The B-52 course will follow the Q course..

Wish me luck !!!!!

 

[Troll]

To get the real scoop on FW Qual course go to http://trss3.randolph.af.mil/bookstore. You have to be on a Gov computer. Select T-37 and look under FV-5A-Q Fixed Wing Qualification Course.

 

[HueyPilot]

I knew a few that went through the FWQ course, and as far as I know, it still exists.

I disagree with this statement:

"Don’t go in there saying 'This is fixed wing transition for me, I’m already a pilot.' That won’t get you anywhere. You might be a pilot, but you're not an AF pilot. "

I'm an "Air Force" pilot now, I suppose. But prior to that I was an Army pilot. No, I didn't walk in acting like I had my **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** together and snubbing any instruction. But I didn't particularly enjoy the "attitude" of some of the IPs, notably the FAIPs, some of whom had alot of hearburn with me wearing my Army wings on my chest. They felt the same way you did....hey, you're a UPT student, you don't deserve to wear wings.

Bull$....I earned 'em, and they're mine. And I was a *RATED U.S. MILITARY PILOT*, period. I respected the IP code, and they should have respected my military wings, but some felt the need to be idiots and get all upset because a student dared to wear a set of wings on his chest. Again, ironically, I had more time that some of the FAIPs I flew with. I played the game, but I spent some time biting my tongue quite a bit.

The PQP instructors were alot more professional about the issue. And I'm not trying to rail on any particular group, but all of the FAIPs that took issue with me wearing wings were Tweet dudes with fighter follow-ons.

When I got to the T-1 squadron, one FAIP actually would sit down with me and ask me questions so he could broaden his knowledge base....he wasn't afraid to ask a rated military pilot who had twice as much time as he did a question simply because that pilot was in a student status......

"We will however expect more out of you. In the flying department and the officership department. "

To be honest with you, the officership department is just as demanding as it was when I was in the Army. And as for the flying department....UPT was easier than Army flight school. By far. I'm not saying that it's easy, but in comparison, UPT didn't measure up. Learning to hover and perform autorotations was many times harder than learning to solo the Tweet. The sim rides in UPT were easier....the schedule was less demanding, and you didn't have to worry about learning the 17-some-odd boldface procedures for the Huey, and being able to at least paraphrase all the rest of the emergency checklists from memory.

Now back to walmartwannabe's questions:

Despite my above rant, I would still remain humble and ready to learn. In fact, you should ALWAYS have that attitude, whether you're in UPT or not. Don't argue with your instructor, because even if he's a young 300-hour FAIP, they know more about the Tweet than you do. Not to mention that the Air Force does do a few things differently, and you'll have to change some habit patterns. But if you stay open minded and ready to learn, you shouldn't have any problems.

As for the syllabus, it's similar to UPT, but with a few changes. I think some FWQ slots are just Phase III, but most are both Phase II and III. You won't undergo alot of the initial training as the UPT students do. You won't have to deal with EPQs and stand-ups either, because (again) YOU ARE ALREADY A RATED MILITARY PILOT and you technically aren't supposed to deal with the retarded harrassment crap that the UPTers deal with. But that's not to say you won't be lumped into that category by some of the instructors anyways.

Just to let you know.....the Air Force culture has a very low opinion of helicopter drivers, especially within the fast-jet communities. Unless, of course, they have had the pleasure of flying a helicopter (or attempting to do so)...then their attitude changes considerably.

P.S......the Huey is still my favorite airplane!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I went through FWQ in 1991, but from what I've heard it's similar. I knew one guy who didn't make it through-he was OK in helos, just a little behind sometimes, but the jet speeds were too much for him-he went back to helos and did fine.

Most of the instructors were excellent, some OK. We had a few FAIPS (1st assgn instructor pilots)-most did allright. Most of the instructors were coming off a real assignment and were great. My main -38 guy was a RF-4 pilot out of England.

You fly very little in the -37, with hardly any solo time. Most of the flt time was -38s. Now, as I understand it, you will be in -38s because all fighter/bomber/recon guys go through -38s, while the crew guys go to the Beechjet.

One thing for Army guys is AF flying is somewhat different, and to make the mental adjustment quickly-do what they say even if it seems stupid. I've heard of some Army guys who made it a little hard on themselves.

There is less classroom work before flying, because you know about weather, VORs, how to fly instruments, etc. I think that AF FWQ (and especially UPT) is harder than Rucker. The hardest parts are instruments and formation. I only flew 2-ship-the fighter guys flew 4-ship which is A LOT harder. I don't know what you'll do, going to a B-52.

If you're about average or above as an Army pilot, as long as you study and take it seriously, you'll do great. I've also heard right now it's almost impossible to wash out, due to the need for pilots. UPT Instructors were saying there are unlimited training rides to get you up to standard if you are having a problem.

Enid is not the greatest place, but the weather is OK. Tulsa is a nicer city than OKC if you're travelling. You're not far from Dallas.

Good luck!

Cliff
GRB

PS-The first guy I saw that I knew at FWQ (my 2nd day) had just ejected from his burning T-37. Both ejections went well ;-)

 

[HueyPilot]

"I think that AF FWQ (and especially UPT) is harder than Rucker"

I'm not sure that's the case anymore. I don't know when you went through FWQ, but if you flew the 38 and are now flying 135s, my guess is you went through during the old UPT syllabus.

The past couple of years, UPT has been alot easier. They have been more willing to bend over backwards to get a student through than they were 10 years ago. Back in the early 90s, you got your one chance and you were out. Recently, I've seen students who have hooked every checkride, and multiple daily rides, and are still in the program (and ultimately graduate).

I think the average is to have 1, maybe 2 students from a class washout. My class lost only 1, who had quit. A far cry from the days when 30-40% of a class would wash out.

 

[Nocturnal1]

FWQ course

Just some disorganised ramblings from an "old fart". When I defected from the Army to the Air Force in '86 they did not have the FWQ open to ex-Army types. Had to go through the whole enchilada. Was I bored? Yes. Did I have the occasional IP with the Napeolean complex, one. But all in all it was a great flying experience. Anytime you get to strap-on (pun intended) a jet and let the gov't pay for it it's a good day. There are some caveats however:
As previously mentioned UPT/FWQ is a different world. Best advice is to keep your ears open and mouth shut. Evaluate who the hard a**es are and work around them...some people enjoy ball busting for sport. Hit the regs (sorry instructions) HARD, plus the BOLDFACE and Ops Limits. You will say them in your sleep before it's over. I wore my wings on my chest and was proud to do so...you should be too. As a plus, the smart IP's will fight over you because of your experience. AETC has an anal retentive attitude for a reason. The sooner you break the code and figure it out the better off you'll be. Primary reason is lack of experience, stud's, IP's, etc. Have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Good Luck

 

[Tweetybird]

walmartwannabe,

I heard someone was looking for FWQ info here! Guess what? I'm the T-37 FWQ Flight Commander at Vance AFB! I haven't posted to this board in a while, but used to use it all the time. Why, you ask. Because I'm a furloughed UAL Pilot. I returned to AD after the F-word came my way. I think you'll enjoy the program and look forward to meeting you when you get here. Enid ain't bad, especially if you have a family. It's a really good place for kids. Ok City is only about an hour and a half away as well.

Anyway, here are some details of the course. I recently assumed command of the program. I've made a bunch of changes. First of all. Nobody gets treated like a retard on my watch! Well, nobody but me Based on your posts I know that you won't try to hide any flight time. That's really silly advice given by someone who doesn't understand the course. It's hard to hide the fact that you're a pilot because my course is for those who are ALREADY pilots. You can't get in unless you're a pilot. Plus, we have you wear AF wings DURING your training. Your Army Helo rating transfers over to a USAF helo rating. My job is to add "Fixed Wing" to the Equation. I check every new pilot's records anyway. It's a professional course, not some type of half-@ssed secret society thing. Once again, that was silly advice.

Here's how I run the show. I don't have any FAIPs fly my sorties! The course requires a seasoned approach to instruction.

I just changed how we administer checkrides. Now, ADOs (Assistant Director of Ops) give the checkrides. I did this to get away from the Student Checkride/FAIP mentality. Don't get me wrong. The FAIPs are generally really really good folks who fly well and do great work. However, FWQ is a different animal. All our ADOs are actual FEs, not just student check-pilots. It places the emphasis in the right place.

The T-37 FWQ program is an abbreviated version of normal pilot training. Therefore, it's fast paced and requires a mature approach by the Trainees. My one and only IP and I (plus a guest help IP or 2) do everything within our power to help folks through. Usually folks do really well, but occasionally we hit a bump in the road. It's like anything though. As long as you have a good attitude and a desire to learn, you'll do really well. It's as simple as that. Your previous experience will serve you well in my course. We have a good group of Trainees right now and I think they're all having a pretty good time.

I also realize that all our trainees are much further along in life than the average student in pilot training. Therefore, I try to adjust the schedule whenever possible to allow my people to take Leave or go somewhere on a Pass if desired. I only require folks to show up to fly. We don't do that babysitting thing all day long like in pilot training. However, trainees usually hang around the flight room more than required simply to talk Tweet. It's a good environment!

PM me if you have any other questions about the course. Although, this open forum gets the word out to others as well. Once again, I look forward to meeting you. It's apparent to me that you have the right attitude for this program. You'll have no worries. Let me know if I can do anything to help you out.

 

[Troll]

Tweety

Do you have contacts in the FWQ for T-38. Hired by a Guard unit and looking for current gouge on how they are running it. Most current info I have is from a bud who did it 3-4 years ago. He was put in a class and did everything along with the regular students as a Maj 1400 TT. Thats OK with me as I am there to learn something new, but just curious. Second, is the dash one a controlled item or can I get my hands on a "C" model ahead of time? Thanks.

 

[Tweetybird]

Troll,

Welcome aboard. Unfortunately, the Dash-1 is currently a controlled item. If it wasn't, I'd send you one. If I find out otherwise I'll let you know.

Once complete with my course (if you attend the T-37 portion), folks go to either the T-1 or T-38, depending on their squadron's aircraft. Those courses are different from mine. Your bud's info is still correct. During those programs you are fully integrated into the student environment. However, by nature of the T-1 or T-38 course, it's already more of an adult program than the normal T-37 course. Since you'll be integrated, you'll pretty much do everything the students do. However, your flight Commander will have the option to Proficiency Advance you (that means delete some of the sorties) if you are doing really well.

What does all this mean? There is not a single Point of Contact in the T-1 or T-38 world like there is in my program. You'll simply be assigned to one of many flights when you get there.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions just ask! I'll do whatever I can to help. Good luck! The T-38 is a blast!

 

[HueyPilot]

FWQ

I'm glad to hear that Vance has what sounds like an outstanding FWQ course. I was a prior-service Army warrant who flew Hueys for nearly 4 years, and unfortunately the AD AF decided they wanted me to attend SUPT in its entirety. It seemed to me that most of the FWQ guys (and gals) were either Guard/Reserve types who's unit got them a slot, or AF helo dudes who wanted to fly FW (or former Army helo guys who did the interservice transfer). Unfortunately, since I was an Army Guard type, I had to apply for OTS and UPT just like everyone else...they FWQ slots weren't open to me.

Anyways, UPT was overall a good experience. I know I vented a few posts back, but that post didn't really represent the overall situation. Most of the FAIPs were really good folks, and actually appreciated my prior military flying experience. However, like anything in life, there were a handful of rotten eggs that spoiled the party, and made their objections to me wearing a set of military aviator wings known. That and they had the attitude that being a military helicopter pilot wasn't a "real" pilot, so therefore, in their minds, I was wearing a set of wings from a Crackerjack box. And they treated me like any other 22-year old 2LT with zero flying experience.

No, I didn't lash out at them....having been in the military at that point for over 8 years, I knew better. But I did have to bite my tongue quite a bit, and it was annoying at best to have to fly with them. Not to rag on the fighter guys, but all of the offending FAIPs were fighter follow-ons who had gone through the 38 program, and their attitude of "every daily ride is like a checkride" soured me on the T-38 track.

When I got to Laughlin, I was leaning towards Herks or bombers, but I had an open mind towards fighters....after having a 300 hour FAIP with 3 years of military experience treat me like a 10 year old kid, it really pushed me towards the T-1/T-44 side. I'm very glad in a way....I'm flying C-21s now with a tactical airlift follow-on, and hopefully I'll be flying Combat Talon IIs in the future, which is really what I wanted in the first place.

UPT wasn't that hard for me, mostly because I guess I had "been there, done that" and knew the "flite skool" game, and had an idea of the standards they hold you to. But at Laughlin, the FWQ guys were thrown into regular UPT flights, except they were exempt from EPQs and stand-ups. But even those guys had two and three times the amount of experience than their FAIP instructors, they were occasionally treated like none of that experience and "aviator wisdom" counted for anything.

One guy I know quit because he thought he was going to a gentleman's course, and he wasn't going to have to deal with the "freshman flunk-out" course that undergraduate training really is. I tried to talk him out of it, but he'd rather fly helos with dignity than have someone nearly half his age and less than a third of his flying experience make him feel like an idiot for no other reason except he was a student.

Anyways, kudos for a REAL FWQ course. Hey, it's a darn qual course, NOT an initial training course.

 

[Tweetybird]

Huey Pilot,

I hear where you're coming from. It's too bad you had that experience at DLF. There are a bunch of good folks down there, but I know what you mean. My FWQ course includes zero haze. I have made quite a few changes and have gotten good feedback so far. In fact, the FWQ pilots themselves have given me good ideas for improvements. Well, mostly good ideas. I'm not sure I'm ready for an "ALL SOLO" syllabus

Have fun in your flying career. It sounds like a good one.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Sounds like Tweet is a welcome addition to the program; we need more folks like him in aviation in general.

As a Navy type I have no experience with AF programs, but as an advanced jet IP in the T-45 I have seen numerous helo to jet trannys over the years. Most were smooth, occasionally some were not. I always made it a point to treat a guy with the respect his experience deserved, and did my best to tailor the instruction as painlessly as possible.

It is no secret that in aviation we continually find ourselves in the position of student. Just when we think we sit at the top of a food chain, we move to the next. I can only shake my head when I see folks abuse a positional advantage.

Good luck, Walmart, and have fun in the "next chapter"!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I recently flew into Del Rio, TX, and talked to an Army FWQ guy at Laughlin AFB who is going Air Guard. He is in FWQ, but Vance was full so, apparently, the overflow is going to Del Rio. He said they didn't exactly know what to do with him, but it was better than the whole UPT course.

Good luck!

Cliff
GRB