Aircraft Upgrade/comparison

[cvsfly]

Company is looking to upgrade next year. 1st full jet ownership. Has a fractional and a current BE-B200 on Part 135. Considerations mentioned - LR-45, Hawker 800/XP, CE-560XL. They are looking for 8-9 seats with enclosed Lav, range about 1500 with 6-7 pax out of 5000' rwy, max elv typically 2500' or less, good baggage space, 3-6 year old aircraft and cost 9 mil or less. I'm thinking they will want to keep DOCs around $1600 or less. Corporate Jet Sales seams to have a handy jet aircraft comparison menu. Trying to get access to Conklin & Decker. Any resources for prepping for Part 135 initial 25 hrs of proving runs to add to operator certificate? Consulting services? What insurance req for 5600 hr pilot with 2000 TP, no jet time?

 

[miles otoole]

Company is looking to upgrade next year. 1st full jet ownership. Has a fractional and a current BE-B200 on Part 135. Considerations mentioned - LR-45, Hawker 800/XP, CE-560XL. They are looking for 8-9 seats with enclosed Lav, range about 1500 with 6-7 pax out of 5000' rwy, max elv typically 2500' or less, good baggage space, 3-6 year old aircraft and cost 9 mil or less. I'm thinking they will want to keep DOCs around $1600 or less. Corporate Jet Sales seams to have a handy jet aircraft comparison menu. Trying to get access to Conklin & Decker. Any resources for prepping for Part 135 initial 25 hrs of proving runs to add to operator certificate? Consulting services? What insurance req for 5600 hr pilot with 2000 TP, no jet time?

1500 NM will be very tough for the 560XL with 8 pax. It's usually 3 pax (650 pounds I think, full fuel, but the biggest baggage of the 3. 45 can fill the seats (1600 pounds I believe), full fuel, especially if you have the XR mod with 2,500 foot altitude, less baggage than the XL. 800 will have plenty of range, but awful baggage. Have fun.

 

[cvsfly]

So maybe 1000 nm for above scenario? Between CE-560XL and LR-45 which is preferred as far as maintenance reliability, service centers, user and pax friendly features? Any differences in hull insurance #? Obviously the Citation gives up some speed for runway performance compared to the Lear. How do these numbers from Corporate Jet Sales measure up?

Aircraft Make/ModelNorm. Cruise KtsNBAA IFR Range NMRunway
BFL
Typ. # Pax SeatsDOC's Per NMDOC's Per HourDOC's Per Seat NM ASK Price Range LEARJET 4545719684,35083.47 $1,436.82 $ 0.73 6185 ~ 11000CITATION XL 43318904,06073.95 $1,564.46 $ 0.93 7850 ~ 10300

For the XLS and XR models - are the improvements worth the extra purchase price over the base models?

 

[cvsfly]

Well spreedsheet didn't turn out. Let's try this.

So maybe 1000 nm for above scenario? Between CE-560XL and LR-45 which is preferred as far as maintenance reliability, service centers, user and pax friendly features? Any differences in hull insurance #? Obviously the Citation gives up some speed for runway performance compared to the Lear. How do these numbers from Corporate Jet Sales measure up?

Aircraft Make/Model Norm. Cruise Kts NBAA IFR Range NM Runway BFL
LEARJET 45 457 1968 4,350
CITATION XL 433 1890 4,060
Typ. # Pax Seats DOC's Per NM DOC's Per Hour DOC's Seat NM ASK Price Range
Lear 8 3.47 $1,436.82 $ 0.73 6185 ~ 11000
Citation 7 3.95 $1,564.46 $ 0.93 7850 ~ 10300

For the XLS and XR models - are the improvements worth the extra purchase price over the base models?

 

[cvsfly]

Still not lined up, but readable?

 

[HMR]

Have you considered an Astra SPX/G100?

 

[miles otoole]

Have you considered an Astra SPX/G100?

Do they even make those things anymore? If not, not sure I'd buy an out of production aircraft.

 

[psysicx]

How much does a Falcon 50 cost?

 

[cvsfly]

How much does a Falcon 50 cost?

CJS website suggests $6.4 - 12 mil. and DOCs about $2700/hr. We need DOCs under $1800/hr. Range and the last 3 seats of a 7-9 seater they can compromise. Cabin room and baggage space and then operating costs are big issues in their minds. Astra is current production under Gulftream now - G100 - Cabin room maybe the disqualifier on that.

 

[miles otoole]

CJS website suggests $6.4 - 12 mil. and DOCs about $2700/hr. We need DOCs under $1800/hr. Range and the last 3 seats of a 7-9 seater they can compromise. Cabin room and baggage space and then operating costs are big issues in their minds. Astra is current production under Gulftream now - G100 - Cabin room maybe the disqualifier on that.

You may not like the 45 vs. XL then, however, the 45 is more comfortable when seated (side walls are more vertical) as well as the ffull lat floor. The dropped aisle on the XL is only about 9-10 inches wide and "can be" annoying when seated as one foot is on small platform and one hanging down in aisle. A bit bigger baggage, however, on the XL which may be nice. Make sure you see and fly on both, especially on real world missions. Good luck.

 

[psysicx]

Yes they still make a G-100.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Falcon 50

 

[SabreFlyR]

Yes they still make a G-100.

I believe the last g-100 rolled off the line earlier this year. They are replacing the 100 with the new g-150.

 

[psysicx]

Go with the Astra.

 

[Snakum]

With the exception of an enclosed lav, the King Air 350 would fit your mission perfectly, I'd think. WAY lower aquisition costs and DOC than the competing aircraft.

 

[G100driver]

Go with the Astra.

Now that is excellent well qualified advice ....

 

[cvsfly]

Go with the Astra.

Above website suggested 6000 BFL for the Astra/G100. Is that right?

The BE-350 probably would be the best bet. Their usual mission profile doesn't justify a jet, but some principles want more speed. I've told them it will cost them.

 

[psysicx]

What about a Westwind?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Check your PMs if you want Conklin info.....