Age 67 and beyond

[Devil Dawg]

Not just trying to stir the pot but heard a few times now that Canada will be increasing the age limit to 67 and ICAO may go unlimited. Has anyone heard this and/or does anyone have documentation to support it? If it is coming our way I sure hope the younger pilots in ALPA, APA, SWAPA ...ect. would stand up and voice a collective he!! no!

 

[acaTerry]

Oh dear God please no.

 

[flyboyike]

Not just trying to stir the pot but heard a few times now that Canada will be increasing the age limit to 67 and ICAO may go unlimited. Has anyone heard this and/or does anyone have documentation to support it? If it is coming our way I sure hope the younger pilots in ALPA, APA, SWAPA ...ect. would stand up and voice a collective he!! no!

We voiced a "collective heck no" last time, too. I'm still sitting right seat next to a bunch of old, decrepit rednecks. Hopefully, my airline will be shut down soon, and said rednecks will end up nose first on the street where they belong. So will I, of course, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make in hopes that it will teach grandpas elsewhere to take what they can and run rather than stick around for boat #25, wife #7, Harley #29 and Corvette #11.

 

[B-atch]

Not just trying to stir the pot but heard a few times now that Canada will be increasing the age limit to 67 and ICAO may go unlimited. Has anyone heard this and/or does anyone have documentation to support it? If it is coming our way I sure hope the younger pilots in ALPA, APA, SWAPA ...ect. would stand up and voice a collective he!! no!

Stop stirring the pot!! No such thing. Rumors are sprouting up since the 5 year extention is rapidly approaching.If the age limit is changed, you will see stricter physical standards that will weed out the gummers, lard eaters, and sleep aptnics.

 

[pilotyip]

We voiced a "collective heck no" last time, too. I'm still sitting right seat next to a bunch of old, decrepit rednecks. Hopefully, my airline will be shut down soon, and said rednecks will end up nose first on the street where they belong. So will I, of course, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make in hopes that it will teach grandpas elsewhere to take what they can and run rather than stick around for boat #25, wife #7, Harley #29 and Corvette #11.

Human beings of all ages make mistakes; young, old, and everywhere in between. The question you really need to be asking is, what age group of professional multi crew pilots have the most fatal accidents. The NTSB documents the age of every airman involved in an accident or incident, so the data is available. Instead, you focus solely on pilot incapacitation, and conclude older pilots are more unsafe than younger pilots. The problem is, you failed to consider incidents that contradict your theory like the two youngsters who zoom climbed an RJ to FL410. The 31 year old Captain and 23 year old SIC flamed out and seized both engines, and then failed to find a single suitable place to land from FL410. I also must have missed it when you included the Colgan accident in Buffalo involving a 47 year old captain with 3300 TT and a 24 year old First Officer with 1400 hours TT. Do you really think it's likely two high time 65 year old pilots would have made the same mistakes? I think it highly unlikely.

This is all about get out of my seat, just admit that and everything will be in the proper context of more money for you.

 

[Cruncher]

Anyone in SWAPA that tries to push for increasing the age will be pushed outta town on the business end of a pike.

A collective NO will be heard loud from us.

Tho, I'm just a single member.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

This may have come from (2010 article updated in 2011):

"Air Canada must reinstate two pilots who want to return to work and fly beyond the collective agreement's retirement age of 60, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal has ruled.
George Vilven, now 67, and Neil Kelly, now 65, allege that they were unfairly forced to retire from Air Canada at 60.
The tribunal said Monday that the two men's return to the cockpit will be subject to retraining, a current pilot licence and "a valid medical certificate showing that they are fit to fly a commercial aircraft under the applicable Transport Canada medical standards." The Globe and Mail

The issue of mandatory (forced) retirement for anyone in Canada is and has been in discussion in Canada for years. Recently the retirement age for government benefits (OAS) was raised from 65 to 67 (Canadians under the age of 54 will have to wait longer) causing this issue to hit the press again.

Bob

 

[Andy]

Do you really think it's likely two high time 65 year old pilots would have made the same mistakes? I think it highly unlikely.

This is all about get out of my seat, just admit that and everything will be in the proper context of more money for you.

Well, I know that 2 65 year olds can't tune identify and monitor. http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-briefs/AAB06-06.pdf
Aside from the higher accident rate per 100,000 flight hours, the accident rate increases geometrically beyond the age of 57. And each year a pilot remains flying past 57, the odds are increasingly likely that they will have an accident.

It's not all about get out of my seat, it's about safety. And it's also about taking jobs away from younger pilots. But you don't seem to care about those in the next generation.
As a result of age 65, the piloting profession is facing a very grim future due to the fact that fewer and fewer people are choosing to become professional pilots.

 

[Andy]

We voiced a "collective heck no" last time, too.

I didn't find that to be the case. More a collective apathy among most pilots. I posted many a warning of the negative career impact of an age change. Now that Pandora's Box has been opened, it will be easier to make another age change. How many will be fired up to fight this? It needs to be a helluva lot more than last time.
I wrote countless emails, letters, and faxes to Congress and the FAA. I sincerely hope that you and many others are fired up enough to do the same this time around because it will be a MUCH tougher battle to stop further age change.

 

[pilotyip]

Well, I know that 2 65 year olds can't tune identify and monitor. http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-briefs/AAB06-06.pdf
Aside from the higher accident rate per 100,000 flight hours, the accident rate increases geometrically beyond the age of 57. And each year a pilot remains flying past 57, the odds are increasingly likely that they will have an accident.

It's not all about get out of my seat, it's about safety. And it's also about taking jobs away from younger pilots. But you don't seem to care about those in the next generation.
As a result of age 65, the piloting profession is facing a very grim future due to the fact that fewer and fewer people are choosing to become professional pilots.

I love the safety banner, lets make the retirement age 55 to be really save if 57 is the break point. If we really want to do this retirement age correctly in the name of safety, we take the age of pilot that experiences an in-flight incapacitation, say a heart attack at age 47, and that becomes the new retirement age. This is all about get out of my seat. BTW the accident report you posted was a part 91, there is no data for over 60 in 121, but there is a fair amount of data for under 60 making bad choices.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I love the safety banner, lets make the retirement age 55 to be really save if 57 is the break point. If we really want to do this retirement age correctly in the name of safety, we take the age of pilot that experiences an in-flight incapacitation, say a heart attack at age 47, and that becomes the new retirement age. This is all about get out of my seat. BTW the accident report you posted was a part 91, there is no data for over 60 in 121, but there is a fair amount of data for under 60 making bad choices.

Shut up and retire you old man.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Shut up and retire you old man.

I don't think anyone wants his seat.

 

[Andy]

BTW the accident report you posted was a part 91, there is no data for over 60 in 121, but there is a fair amount of data for under 60 making bad choices.

And your point? The pilots were flying a simple approach in instrument conditions. It was the first flight of the day, in a G3. This wasn't a couple of weekend flyers out flying a Cessna 172.
If you're trying to represent flying a G3 on an instrument approach as something more complex than part 121 flying, good luck with that.

As for your statement that there's no part 121 data for pilots over 60, that's technically correct; however there used to be no age limit for 1-30 seat aircraft flown under part 135. The CAMI study used data that included part 135 pilots over the age of 60. The FAA moved that flying from part 135 to part 121 and at the same time limited maximum age to 60. So while the flying was part 135, it was really 121 with no age restriction. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1995-12-20/pdf/95-30545.pdf

I also notice that you never mention age-related cognitive decline. Or any other age related deterioration of physical abilities.

 

[ATRCA]

I don't think anyone wants his seat.

^^^this^^^^

He trolls the "Major" board yet he's never worked for one.

 

[TMMT]

We voiced a "collective heck no" last time, too. I'm still sitting right seat next to a bunch of old, decrepit rednecks. Hopefully, my airline will be shut down soon, and said rednecks will end up nose first on the street where they belong. So will I, of course, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make in hopes that it will teach grandpas elsewhere to take what they can and run rather than stick around for boat #25, wife #7, Harley #29 and Corvette #11.

So I'm a bit curious is the union position on age limits about safety, or about the numbers of stripes you can show off at the hotel bar on layovers?

Sounds to me like you are just angry that you'll have to wait your turn to sign for the aircraft...

 

[pilotyip]

^^^this^^^^

He trolls the "Major" board yet he's never worked for one.

The 121 age rule does not only apply to the "majors", but to the supplementals also. I am been fortunate in my career to have never been lucky enough to get hired and furloughed buy a major

 

[UAL-GSO]

So I'm a bit curious is the union position on age limits about safety, or about the numbers of stripes you can show off at the hotel bar on layovers?

Sounds to me like you are just angry that you'll have to wait your turn to sign for the aircraft...

Crap - he figured out the conspiracy! You damn kids...

 

[atpcliff]

CANADA does not have an age limit for pilots. Europe is next...about 5-7 yrs ago Europe formed an Age 70 committee to study changing their system.

Our age limit will dissapear, it is just a question of when...

cliff
BWI

 

[emspilot 01]

Age 67 and beyond...

So I'm a bit curious is the union position on age limits about safety, or about the numbers of stripes you can show off at the hotel bar on layovers?

Sounds to me like you are just angry that you'll have to wait your turn to sign for the aircraft...

I think all First Officers aspire to become Captains. Most younger pilots will sell their soul for aviation. That's the big difference between older and younger pilots...:laugh: