Age 65

[realityman]

[COLOR="Blue"][/COLOR]

Back to the 65 rule idea. When you are an FO you work the same schedule, fly the same plane, but get half the pay and you have to work directly underneath someone elses thumb.So? Isn't that pretty much how it works at ANY job? Unless, of course, you own the company. At almost any job you start you'll be working under someone's thumb for less money. And yes, that person may be less skilled at the job than you. Most captains out there are great, but some are complete tools and don't deserve the 4th stripe. Same could be said for some F/O's.An FO wants career progression, they want to be in charge and they want the bigger pay check and the better life. You don't think captains want the same? I'm a captain, so I have the being in charge thing. But I'm currently facing the same stagnation as everyone else. I currently have no prospects for anymore career progression (still have a good 26 years left to fly) or pay increases. Just because I'm already captain means I shouldn't make any more money either?The problem in the the 91/91k/135 world is that if there is no growth with the company, that FO has no idea when he will upgrade. The guy sitting next to him can stay as long as they want. This is maddening for career progression. Agreed. I'd be pissed too. But it's not the captain's fault (no matter the age of the captain). As Helmsalee astutely pointed out, this job (really, any job) is a great deal of luck and timing.

Some guys say "tough luck, if you don't like the job go to another place; this is my seat and I earned it and I will stay as long as I like". That is a complete bull crap statement. The first part of that statement is BS, the second part is true. And it's true regardless of age. If a company sees fit to hire an older pilot, and that pilot becomes a captain at that company, it's because he has earned the ability to obtain that job. Everyone knows how this industry works with jobs. You can't just go somewhere else. WHY? BECAUSE YOU GO BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. True. What do you suggest to change it?Now you have to wait for all the other FOs to upgrade, then it's your turn. Once you have several years in as an FO, human nature makes you want to stay because you don't want to feet like you wasted your life/time. And if you do go somewhere else, you have to put up with the same thing.

And yes, motive to fly can be annoying. Agreed. But still irrelevant.Guys in the right seat who want the career progression and a better life can't stand the captain that talks about how this job is just their fun retirement job or they do the job to get them out of the house. Yes. There are some times that are better than others for talking about this stuff. There are definitely times when it would be better for the guy in the left seat to stay quiet.Fine, it may not be anybodies business why someone works, but if you are "retired" please do the guy in the right seat a favor and shut your mouth. Don't talk about how work is fun and games or how you own this and that and how you want more. And maybe in return the guy in the right seat wont complain about you being old and in the way. And maybe the guy in the right seat can put on his big-boy pants and politely and tactfully change the topic or steer the conversation away from subjects that bother him. Am I correct in assuming that F/O's are mature adults too?

Deal?

And by the way. I am a left seater, I just look out for and am mindful of the guys who are eager to join my side of the plane.

Good for you. I do the same. But looking out for them doesn't mean I will get out of their way just because THEY think I have enough. Only I can and will decide when I will retire, whether it's based on financial considerations or lifestyle considerations.

 

[realityman]

Ps- sorry about the color changes of my replies in the previous post. Tried to make them all blue. This site isn't terribly compatible with my IPad.

 

[gret]

Ps- sorry about the color changes of my replies in the previous post. Tried to make them all blue. This site isn't terribly compatible with my IPad.

No problem. We got it!

Good post from an excellent perspective.

 

[CA1900]

so is there a better system than seniority to determine who gets to be Captain? Maybe it should be who is related to the boss?, who the CP likes the most?

Don't give B19 any ideas... :laugh:

 

[Hamburger]

The fallacy of your argument is that I'm not over Age 60. Oops.

Didn't say you were. I was talking about your seat, not your age.
Granted, I should have refined it to "your kind", as in people who support this nonsense.
If you're a Captain, you are double dipping and trying to play me for an idiot. If you're not a Captain, then you're just an idiot.

However, some of us regard Age 65 as an opportunity to regain our top five earning potential years.

While the rest of us are smart enough to understand that the five years we've 'regained' aren't the top five. Captains took our top five and to give themselves an extra five.

Of course EVERYONE'S career also got extended 5 years.
Even Hamburger's.

That is true. What you fail to grasp is Captains get to spend those extended five years as a Captain and FO' get to spend those extended five years as an FO. You work at Alaska? Let's see how those numbers crunch, shall we?
$261,000 lost ($58/hr pay lost for five years at min guarantee) That's pure bare minimum pay, not counting profit sharing/401k/working above min guarantee.
Of course, at Alaska there's still 47 guys spending those five years making NOTHING.
Funny I don't hear anyone demanding that the 93 year olds should come back and displace the 60 year olds back down to FO's. It's all about age discrimination, right?
So, are you a Captain?

 

[Hamburger]

So, are you a Captain?

Hmmmmm?


You're awfully quiet all of a sudden.

 

[gret]

Hmmmmm?


You're awfully quiet all of a sudden.

Wait one minute..you responded to your own post?

...or did I miss something?

 

[Hamburger]

Just repeating the question from six days ago that Fubi doesn't seem to want to answer.

C'mon Fubi, enlighten us.

Did you gain or lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in the decision?

 

[fob727]

It's over and done with....get over it!

 

[Hamburger]

No thanks.

Guys calling me greedy while taking hundreds of thousands of dollars out of my pocket will always get under my skin.