AE Flow ups...Better check with your union. It aint over yet...

[BigMotorToter]

The APA B.O.D. just voted to file a lawsuit to reverse the Nicalou ruling.

It was unanimous, 18-0, which is rare.

This isn't over folks.

 

[bluesideup1]

The APA B.O.D. just voted to file a lawsuit to reverse the Nicalou ruling.

It was unanimous, 18-0, which is rare.

This isn't over folks.

HAHAHAHA it is over they just keep kicking the dead horse hoping it will come back to life. Just ask the US Air guys how there lawsuit is going with the Nicalou award.

 

[MCDU]

That is great. Why anybody would pick Nicolau is beyond me. No wonder he got kicked from doing baseball arbitration. Good luck APA. I guess USAIR East pilots are not the only ones who have a problem with this old man.

M

 

[TWA Dude]

This isn't over folks.

Unfortunately, this is purely a feel-good move and the APA BOD knows it. Barring evidence of impropriety judges won't touch an arbitrator's award. Don't take my word for it either, ask any competent attorney (which excludes one Lee Seham). No matter how much it sucks binding actually does mean binding.

 

[lookin4better]

Seriously, this is pretty lame. APA had hundreds of pilots flow back to AE..... just be adults and honor the agreement both ways.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Seriously, this is pretty lame. APA had hundreds of pilots flow back to AE..... just be adults and honor the agreement both ways.

AE ALPA sued back in 2003 to prevent the flow backs from going to Eagle. Hundreds of pilots were denied their contractual rights to flow back for over 4 months while the lawsuit went through the motions. Because of that most never went to Eagle as they were supposed to.

Where were the Eagle adults then?

Honoring the agreement would mean that Eagle pilots can flow when there are "New Hire Classes". Classifying TWA pilots as "New Hires" just so Eagle pilots can flow during "Recall Classes" is absurd, and yes arbitrators have been overturned in the past due to gross negligence of their rulings. Arbitrators are not untouchable.

The Law of Unintended Consequences:

The Eagle Pilots now get to cut in line like they wanted.

What if this does get overturned, do they get to go back to Eagle? I don't know, can anyone say for sure. Is it worth it to gamble with your career?

Eagle pilots get to stay.

Life will not be fun. Eternal reserve on the most junior airplane in the most junior bases. Many will go to STL were you are not wanted or liked. In fact you’re not wanted or liked anywhere in the system. Not because they hate Eagle pilots, it's just that AA just furloughed again and there are over 1900 still furloughed and here some big shiny jet syndrome line cutter comes in and takes the job of a furloughee. I hate to say it but you will be treated like a scab. The flow up list has already been published on C&R ( The APA's message board) to be copied and carried by all those pilots who want to.

Again the bitterness is not the fact you have a right to come over, you do, but only during "New Hire Classes" which is what the agreement says. Changing the definition of "New Hire" is not legitimate, and the APA feels a Judge will see it the same way.

 

[TWA Dude]

mistakes were made , flawed reasoning, ignored testimony, improper inferences ...etc etc etc..

Look, there's no doubt the arbitrators were in La La land on these rulings but simply being unfair doesn't a court case make. Some aspect of contract law has to be violated for a judge to touch this. Problem is, arbitrators are the ones tasked with interpreting those contracts and judges usually defer to their opinions. If we're lucky we can get a delay out of a lawsuit but that's it.

 

[Pilotbob3]

AE ALPA sued back in 2003 to prevent the flow backs from going to Eagle. Hundreds of pilots were denied their contractual rights to flow back for over 4 months while the lawsuit went through the motions. Because of that most never went to Eagle as they were supposed to.

Where were the Eagle adults then?

Honoring the agreement would mean that Eagle pilots can flow when there are "New Hire Classes". Classifying TWA pilots as "New Hires" just so Eagle pilots can flow during "Recall Classes" is absurd, and yes arbitrators have been overturned in the past due to gross negligence of their rulings. Arbitrators are not untouchable.

The Law of Unintended Consequences:

The Eagle Pilots now get to cut in line like they wanted.

What if this does get overturned, do they get to go back to Eagle? I don't know, can anyone say for sure. Is it worth it to gamble with your career?

Eagle pilots get to stay.

Life will not be fun. Eternal reserve on the most junior airplane in the most junior bases. Many will go to STL were you are not wanted or liked. In fact you’re not wanted or liked anywhere in the system. Not because they hate Eagle pilots, it's just that AA just furloughed again and there are over 1900 still furloughed and here some big shiny jet syndrome line cutter comes in and takes the job of a furloughee. I hate to say it but you will be treated like a scab. The flow up list has already been published on C&R ( The APA's message board) to be copied and carried by all those pilots who want to.

Again the bitterness is not the fact you have a right to come over, you do, but only during "New Hire Classes" which is what the agreement says. Changing the definition of "New Hire" is not legitimate, and the APA feels a Judge will see it the same way.

Thank you for posting the truth.

 

[eglguy]

The Eagle Pilots now get to cut in line like they wanted.

What if this does get overturned, do they get to go back to Eagle? I don't know, can anyone say for sure. Is it worth it to gamble with your career?

Eagle pilots get to stay.

Life will not be fun. Eternal reserve on the most junior airplane in the most junior bases. Many will go to STL were you are not wanted or liked. In fact you’re not wanted or liked anywhere in the system. Not because they hate Eagle pilots, it's just that AA just furloughed again and there are over 1900 still furloughed and here some big shiny jet syndrome line cutter comes in and takes the job of a furloughee. I hate to say it but you will be treated like a scab. The flow up list has already been published on C&R ( The APA's message board) to be copied and carried by all those pilots who want to.


Again the bitterness is not the fact you have a right to come over, you do, but only during "New Hire Classes" which is what the agreement says. Changing the definition of "New Hire" is not legitimate, and the APA feels a Judge will see it the same way.

Line Cutter? Were you on the AA seniority list in 2000?

Actually it was two arbitrators both Larroco and Nicolau who said some TWA pilots were new hires you think a judge will overthrow two arbitrators opinions? APA is throwing on some window dressing for TWA pilots You are the ones who aren't liked, a bunch of whiney entitlement babies.

 

[begsby]

Another waist of union money!!

 

[igneousy2]

Thank you for posting the truth.

TWA pilots don't count as new hires right...then they shouldn't have been allowed to flow back...or at the very least the 100+ eagle pilots that had AA seniority numbers that were senior to most of the TWA pilots should have been allowed to go over in the same way...when there was an opening on the AA side they should have been allowed to bid over.

Just like the Eagle lawsuit...this is a losing proposition and a waste of APA dollars.

Shiny new jet syndrome? hahahahahah. In case you haven't noticed Eagle has had the shiny new jets of the AMR fleet for the past decade. I hope you weren't talking about your shiny new MD80 when you were making that comment...cus that would have been really funny.

 

[satpak77]

The APA B.O.D. just voted to file a lawsuit to reverse the Nicalou ruling.

It was unanimous, 18-0, which is rare.

This isn't over folks.

Sounds like some attorneys "convinced" some people to file a lawsuit (and thereby collect some legal fees)



ahh....free enterprise

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

AE ALPA sued back in 2003 to prevent the flow backs from going to Eagle. Hundreds of pilots were denied their contractual rights to flow back for over 4 months while the lawsuit went through the motions. Because of that most never went to Eagle as they were supposed to.

Where were the Eagle adults then?

Honoring the agreement would mean that Eagle pilots can flow when there are "New Hire Classes". Classifying TWA pilots as "New Hires" just so Eagle pilots can flow during "Recall Classes" is absurd, and yes arbitrators have been overturned in the past due to gross negligence of their rulings. Arbitrators are not untouchable.

The Law of Unintended Consequences:

The Eagle Pilots now get to cut in line like they wanted.

What if this does get overturned, do they get to go back to Eagle? I don't know, can anyone say for sure. Is it worth it to gamble with your career?

Eagle pilots get to stay.

Life will not be fun. Eternal reserve on the most junior airplane in the most junior bases. Many will go to STL were you are not wanted or liked. In fact you’re not wanted or liked anywhere in the system. Not because they hate Eagle pilots, it's just that AA just furloughed again and there are over 1900 still furloughed and here some big shiny jet syndrome line cutter comes in and takes the job of a furloughee. I hate to say it but you will be treated like a scab. The flow up list has already been published on C&R ( The APA's message board) to be copied and carried by all those pilots who want to.

Again the bitterness is not the fact you have a right to come over, you do, but only during "New Hire Classes" which is what the agreement says. Changing the definition of "New Hire" is not legitimate, and the APA feels a Judge will see it the same way.

ALPA never sued anybody. Get your facts straight. ALPA has grieved several Letter 3 issues but they have never sued. C&R does not protect you from being fired for harassment under rule 32. Be careful out there with this stupid crying over a legitimate award. If APA and ALPA had amended Letter 3 to include the TWA merger then we would have never had this problem. The fact remains that AA flowbacks from TWA were given Captain seats and AE was given nothing until years later from an arbitrator ruling.
APA has only themselves to blame for creating this internal pilot versus pilot schoolyard bullying. They should have stuck with APA President J** S***** who said that recalls to AA will be in seniority order including AE flwothroughs. As it turns out he was the wisest of the bunch at APA. He knew that going outside seniority would create the current mess.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Maybe people should re-visit the remedy before getting all hot and bothered. Only 35 Eagle FT's are going to AA this June. The rest of the 209 don't go until AA recalls last furlough pilot from Feb10, and then it will be in AA seniority order. We all know that when AA recalls they will go through the furlough list in less then 6 months with all the deferrals. Most of the Eagle pilots I talk to would much rather stay at Eagle instead of taking a 50-75K pay cut, especially the 209 that are pay protected at AA and double dipping on retirement.