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Advice needed on buying used experimental..

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thee12nv

Active member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Posts
32
I am looking to buy my first airplane and am looking at a Kitfox with optional floats. Nothing fancy but looks like fun. He is asking $16,500 which seems fair for a float plane. It is experimental with a 74 HP Rotax. TT 55 Hours.
My concern is that he hasn't flown it in about a year and a half. He claims he has some sort of aircraft maintence license. Not A&P but something like A&E and that he has pulled the prop through regularly. He said he rotated the engine by the prop ? I asked if he started it regularly and he said no.. He was older and hard for me to talk with. Bad hearing.

The plane is about a 3 hour drive from here so I would like to go take a look at it this weekend. What should I look for or ask about. I asked if we could start it and he said probably not as it is stored in the neighborhood and he hasn't added water to the new battery. Should I give him a deposit and ask for an A&P inspection prior to final payment? Will most A&P's be familiar with a Rotax? I asked if we could fly it ,he is/was a CFI, and he wasn't to receptive.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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When someone builds a kit plane, they are given a waiver to do all the MX on THAT PLANE and THAT PLANE ONLY. He can sign off all the work which an AI (IA?) would normally need to sign off. That may be what he was meaning. Get a hold of the local EAA chapter and they can point you to a good A&P(familiar with experimental aircraft) in the area to do a good inspection on the aircraft.



SS
 
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Thank you. I am familair with the builder being able to inspect it . but he is the second owner and I think it was finished before he bought it.
 
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You want some advise on buying a used experimental aircraft with a 2-cycle rotax engine? The best advise I could give you is DON'T DO IT!!! :eek:

Get a hold of your local EAA chapter and talk to those guys. They will be able to give you plenty of tips and advise. Bottom line, you're probably going to have trouble finding a mechanic and AI to work on it and a CFI willing to train you in it.

Having said all that, if you decide to proceed make sure you set aside enough money to buy a ballistic parachute.

Ya'll be careful.

'Sled

 
How easy is it to install a balistic parachute system on kitplanes? I would think that the attachment points would have to be engineered well enough to withstand the force of the parachute opening? Is this doable in most planes? Any idea of the $$$?
 
Probably be cheaper to just wear a parachute.... Another thing, if you want to own an airplane, then by God go out and do it. Most people in the world have absolutely no opportunity because GA is regulated out of existence for the majority of nations on Earth. (You know, pilots are rich, therefore tax the crap out of anything aviation related.) You only live once (as far as I know, Vishnu may have a different opinion.) I talked to a few guys that own or have owned airplanes they all said that if you wait for the "perfect" time than it will never happen; something will always take precedence.

I'd like to buy an RV-4, RV-6 or Thorp T-18....someday.
 
LXJ31 said:
You only live once (as far as I know, Vishnu may have a different opinion.) I talked to a few guys that own or have owned airplanes they all said that if you wait for the "perfect" time than it will never happen; something will always take precedence.
Some of us owned airplanes in past lives... how lucky is that? :P
 
Does the term "EXPERIMENTAL" mean anything to you? Are you ready to start experimenting with your life at this point? Do you have a wife and or kids? Valid questions to think about. A plane aint proven until proven in the official certification process. So, my advice is save your money or buy something proven. Seen too many private pilot folks get killed this way.

Just my $0.02
 
Experimental issues

Let's say you have a problem with either the airframe or engine. There won't be mechanic around that will work on that bird. Why? Because that mechanic must sign his name to the aircraft log books that the repair complied with current FAA standards/procedures. That may be true enough, but the aircraft was not certified as being built to comply with any set standards so how can he certify that his repair will not fail as a result of some other failure or cause some other problem downstream of his fix??

That is a legal can of worms that most mechanics simply don't need. Besides, the Rotax is not an engine that most mechanics are familiar with so they won't have the manuals/knowledge on hand to make a fast fix if you happen to be on a X country. Same with the Kitfox airframe. On top of all of that, if you sell this plane to someone who then gets hurt, guess who will be in court as a result of a lawsuit. You and all the previous owners. Do you really want to get into that line??? Heck, the certified aircraft builders are hauled in to court even with the complete documentation that they have for their certified aircraft. What documentation do you have that provides proof that the airplane was built/maintained accordingly and can you afford the attorney to protect you?

If you are a desk jocky, you might want to check the exclusion section of your disability policies (long/short term and medical). My long term disability policy says that it won't cover any injuries casued by flying an experimental/ultralight aircraft.
 
Most warbirds I've seen at airshows are registered as "Experimental," and they were built according to standards.

I'd talk with your local EAA chapter. Lots of people fly experimental registered aircraft, are they all crazy?
 
RockyMnt1 said:
the aircraft was not certified as being built to comply with any set standards .
What do you think the FAA inspector or I/A uses for a pre-cover inspection that must be performed on this aircraft? :rolleyes:

If you are independently wealthy, as I guess some of the naysayers must be, go buy a certified $300,000 airplane that requires $400-FAA/PMA-bolts and $20,000 annual inspections.
If you're not, take your time, above all else! Do some research into the Kitfox reliability history as well as the trends and problems this engine may or may not posess. Talk to your local EAA chapter and tell them your plans. You'll find that these people generally love to talk about airplanes and should be a big help. Try and find a Kitfox owner and see if you can get a ride in his plane or at the very least, an opinion and any insight(you may not even like the plane after you fly it! ). From the info you've given me, I wouldn't buy the airplane that you're looking at unless Grandpa can show you that it'll fly, much less start up and run! Knowledge of this particular engine is not necessary. There are easy ways to measure the health of any engine. An A&P should check compression, check the oil quality and perform a spectro-analysis if possible, borescope the cylinders and check crankshaft tolerances. Take your time and do lots of research.....
 
LXJ31 said:
Lots of people fly experimental registered aircraft, are they all crazy?
In my opinion, yes. But if it's any consolation, I won't touch helicopters either. I watch them as we are taxiing out. Forget about it.

Uncle Sparky said:
If you are independently wealthy, as I guess some of the naysayers must be, go buy a certified $300,000 airplane that requires $400-FAA/PMA-bolts and $20,000 annual inspections.
First of all, certified airplanes don't all cost $300k. Second of all, and I really am loath to use this phrase, if it "flies..., rent it" (I won't fill in the rest). Find a good FBO. Join a flying club (a good one, anyway). It just ain't worth tying up all your financial resources on the overhead necessary to own a plane.

And to be honest, it doesn't bother me to something other than fly on my off days. I love my job, but I fly all day. When I have time off, I want to do something else. That's part of what keeps me loving my job so much. And that's why I won't buy an airplane.

-Goose
 
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Quote: "A plane aint proven until proven in the official certification process. "

How true, Burt Rutan went through the certification process before he won the first amateur built aircraft to fly in sapce....didn't he ???

Yeh, you all better stay away from "any" airplane that is not certified because only idiots build experimentals.

Cat Driver
 
LXJ31 said:
Probably be cheaper to just wear a parachute.
To save ones own life is divine, but... What about saving the airplane also?
And isn't it faster to push a button than to unbuckle, unlock/open the door, and have everyone jump one at a time out of a plane that is out of control? That doesn't seem realistic.

This brings up another point. Since Cirrus has come out with its Balistic Parachute System, other manufacturers have gone the other way with this. Mooney and others are going to put airbags in the cockpits. I'll take the parachute system anyday over airbags.
 
I don't see why some guys are getting twisted around the axle about this Kitfox. Do some research and look it over very carefully. You should know within a few minutes whether you want to buy the thing or not. There are some very nice Kitfoxes out there, and some are complete crap. The crap will stand out pretty quickly.

As for the engine, you say it's a 74 hp Rotax. That would be a Rotax 618, 2 cylinder 2 stroke liquid cooled... and no longer in production, but parts are still available. After sitting idle for so long, I'd consider just pulling it off and have it overhauled, don't worry about nursing it back to health. I've read that a 618 can be overhauled for around $1500 or so. Also consider replacing all the fuel lines; most ultralights/light homebuilts use clear plastic tubing for fuel lines and need replacing every few years. Assuming this ship has a header fuel tank with no wing tanks that should be a fairly easy job.

First thing you ought do though, is sit in it to make sure you'll fit. Or try to anyway... I've never flown a Kitfox, just sat in one, and wow was it cramped. Very snug cabin.

You might also want to read or post a few questions on the Kitfox message board at http://www.skystar.com/disc2_toc.htm. Also check Yahoo Groups for Kitfox owners groups, should be lotsa good advice there...

Good luck!

JB
Van's RV-8 QB kit; currently mounting the empennage...
 
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I agree 100 percent with jbDC-9. If your looking at experimental aircraft, like many have said, join your Local EAA Chapter. Lot's of information and people to help you find something that suit's you.

I don't know much about Kitfox's, but I've heard the Rotex engine is ok if maintained more than some other engines out there.

Someone from your local EAA CHapter would know someone to look it over for you before you bought it.

You also might want to try building one yourself. Zenith Zodiac XL is a nice firsrt airplane with a budget in mind. RV's are good too, but get expensive as I'm finding out.

Good Luck

328dude
RV-9A Standard build. Deburring and dimpling the empenage as we speak.
 
atleast ask him to use plenty of lube...

I have no opinion one way or the other about flying an experimental. I've flown certified airplanes that shouldn't have been in the air, so it's really six of one, and a half-dozen of the other. The Wright Bros. didn't have an FAA man around, and they did just fine.

On the flip side. This ol' fart sounds like he's trying to get over on you. Unfortunately, from your post, you sound very eager to continue with this purchase, regardless of his answers (or lack of) to your questions. The whole "hasn't been flown in a year an a half" isn't too big of a concern, but the not wanting to start it because it's in a neighborhood?!?! plus he's balking at the idea of flying.

You're gonna get ripped off.

He knows it probably a: won't run, or atleast not well, and b: probably shouldn't be flying. If he's not willing to stick his a** in it, why would you be willing to pay him for it?

Think of it as something other than an airplane. Would you pay $16,500 for a two seat roadster when the owner says that although he's a mechanic, he doesn't start the engine, or ever drive it? When you ask him to start it, he says he won't cause it's in a neighborhood, but the engine doesn't make much more noise than a loud harley davidson or a two cycle dirtbike, and he won't drive it around the block, although he holds a license?

I haven't seen you, but I'm certain you've got that twinkle in your eye when talking about, or looking at that plane. It's the stuff dreams are made of :) If it wasn't, we wouldn't be flying to begin with!

I had the same twinkle when I bought my first car at 15, but dreams of restoration and cruising before I was out of high school soon left and 3 years and all my grocery store paychecks later, I watched as it drove away. It was complete, but it took a lot more time/effort than it was worth, and I never got back what I put into it. (I know many of you out there have been in this same situation.)

Not trying to dash your hopes, or make you look/feel small. There are plenty of other deals to be had, both certified and experimental. Just be patient, and you'll find one. Better than making a 16,500 mistake.
 
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pilot_guy said:
He knows it probably a: won't run, or atleast not well, and b: probably shouldn't be flying. If he's not willing to stick his a** in it, why would you be willing to pay him for it?

Good points.
 
Thanks. I read his avatar, and I'd just hate to see a newbie get screwed.

I mean, it's one thing not to run an engine, or fly a plane being sold as a rebuilder, but a kitfox rebuilder wouldn't have a $16,500 price tag either.

Guy doesn't want to run it or fly it, and it's not sold as a project; don't buy it.

If he's gonna buy it, without running it, or flying it...he should offer the owner an amount representative of an airplane that is known to require work in order to be airworthy. Anything could be wrong, from the engine, to the avionics, to the pitot/static system, covering, or even the floats. They could leak, and he wouldn't know it, cause he hasn't put it in the water.

Believe me, no one will "steal it out from under him" under his current terms. Atleast, not anyone with any experience in aviation.

I'd still stick with my original opinion. Find another airplane.
 
This plane if purchased should bought with the assumption that it will need at the least 1.engine overhaul 2.complete aiframe inspection by someone familiar with the model. (You would be surprised by the amount of hardware store crap that ends up on expermintal A/C) The price sounds high taking this into consideration.

Take you 16K and go find a Piper, Cessna, Champ, Stinson type and you will not regret it.
 
Quote: "A plane aint proven until proven in the official certification process. "

How true, Burt Rutan went through the certification process before he won the first amateur built aircraft to fly in sapce....didn't he ???

Yeh, you all better stay away from "any" airplane that is not certified because only idiots build experimentals.

Cat Driver
:D :) :D :) :D :) :D :)

I toured the kitfox factory a couple of years ago, and was very impressed with the quality of work, attention to detail, and professional set up of the shop, and the professionalism of the workers. They make a good product.

A kit airplane is only as good as the builder. Thus far, someone has inferred that the seller is not the builder; the seller therefore cannot hold a repairman certificate for the aircraft, but also doesn't need to in order to maintain it.

Rather than get caught up in conjecture as to the qualifications of this older gentleman, why don't you inspect the airplane for yourself? Who cares what his qualifications are? It's an experimental, after all. Concern yourself here with safety; is his work of high standard, and does he employ quality craftsmanship? Has he used proper industry standard practices? Is the airframe indeed airworthy? If so, then what object lies in your path to prevent purchase of the aircraft? Either it's up to speed or it's not. Take a trusted mechanic with you, inspect it, and make up your mind.

jbDC9 offered some good advice regarding your question. Ignore most of what you've read here, and go back to read his post.

You want some advise on buying a used experimental aircraft with a 2-cycle rotax engine? The best advise I could give you is DON'T DO IT!!! :eek:
Why not? Bombardier, who owns Learjet, also owns Rotax. Lots of rotax out there in use. As for two cycle...did you know that many of the Oshkosh rigs that serve your crash rescue needs, the same vehicles that absolutely, positively MUST be reliable and ready to work, use two cycle engines?

Kitfoxes have all manner of engines installed, with great success. My first preference wouldn't be that engine, but do as you please. A lot of those airplanes are flying with those engines. My biggest beef is the sound, followed by the mixing of fuel.

Does the term "EXPERIMENTAL" mean anything to you? Are you ready to start experimenting with your life at this point? Do you have a wife and or kids? Valid questions to think about. A plane aint proven until proven in the official certification process. So, my advice is save your money or buy something proven. Seen too many private pilot folks get killed this way.
I've seen a lot of experiemental aircraft in which the quality of design and workmanship far exceeds that of production, type certificated aircraft. Let's not forget that the Cirrus and Lancair aircraft were kit airplanes before they were production airplanes, as was the Alarus.

I've also seen a lot of production airplanes that I wouldn't set foot in. Weather the aircraft has met type design criterial and obtained a type certificate is irrelevant if the aircraft hasn't received impeccable maintenance. I have flown a number of experimental and restricted category aircraft, and wouldn't hesitate over the category of airworthiness certificate held by the airplane. Inspect it. If it's safe to fly, it's safe to fly. Get proper instruction by one qualified to do so in that aircraft (factory springs to mind), and go fly. You always have the option of inviting the factory or a factory rep to inspect it.

Let's say you have a problem with either the airframe or engine. There won't be mechanic around that will work on that bird. Why? Because that mechanic must sign his name to the aircraft log books that the repair complied with current FAA standards/procedures. That may be true enough, but the aircraft was not certified as being built to comply with any set standards so how can he certify that his repair will not fail as a result of some other failure or cause some other problem downstream of his fix??
Not true. Some shops and some mechanics will be reluctant to work on the aircraft, some will not. The mechanic does not need to sign the aircraft logbook certifying that the repair has been performed within current FAA standards, only that the repair is airworthy. Further, in many cases, the repair need not be made by a FAA certificated mechanic. I will work on an experimental aircraft, but only at my discretion, continent on my personal assesment of the airplane and the attitude of the owner.

An A&P should check compression, check the oil quality and perform a spectro-analysis if possible, borescope the cylinders and check crankshaft tolerances. Take your time and do lots of research.....
Checking crankshaft tolerances isn't part of a normal inspection. A major powerplant inspection during an overhaul, yes. However, the advice is sound; do oil analysis, and have the aircaft thoroughly inspected.

But if it's any consolation, I won't touch helicopters either. I watch them as we are taxiing out. Forget about it.
You're missing out, and shortchanging yourself on one of the greatest pleasures (and challenges) in aviation.

To save ones own life is divine, but... What about saving the airplane also?
And isn't it faster to push a button than to unbuckle, unlock/open the door, and have everyone jump one at a time out of a plane that is out of control? That doesn't seem realistic.
Ballistic parachute installations were never intended to save the aircraft, just the occupants. Anybody that has ever landed a round parachute might think twice about deploying such a syste in the first place.

These installations are more often than not utilized as panic buttons. How about more self-regulation regarding maintaining one's airplane, and seeking better training as a pilot. A parachute is no substitute for common sense, even though it's often a whole lot more fun.

Someone, perhaps the original poster, mentioned that the owner hasn't run the engine, but has been pulling the propeller through. Pulling the propeller through on an engine doesn't provide any appreciable benifit. What it does do instead is cause excessive wear, and promotes corrosion as residual oil films on various surfaces are disturbed or displaced. This means the engine is moving without lubrication, and has lost it's corrosion protection. This also means increased wear during engine start, the worst time for the engine.

I'd sure be a lot more comfortable seeing that engine run. I'd also be very interested if I were doing the purchase in seeing the condition of the fuel cells, lines, and associated equipment after auto fuel has been sitting so long. Good luck!
 
avbug said:
:D :) :D :) :D :) :D :)


Checking crankshaft tolerances isn't part of a normal inspection. A major powerplant inspection during an overhaul, yes. However, the advice is sound; do oil analysis, and have the aircaft thoroughly inspected.
On many of the smaller engines that were not originally designed for aviation applications(VW conversions being public enemy NO.1), crankshaft endplay/runout should be checked. Many engines are originally designed with a simple, single dimension, twisting load in mind. Throw a prop on the end of the crank and now you have a large disc, spinning through the air and being pulverized by wind and G-force. Of course if this engine has a PSRU this problem won't be such a big factor but in my opinion, the engine probably wasn't designed for a PSRU either. Regardless, as an A&P myself, I would bring a dial indicator and an Eddy Current tester or Dye Kit.
Goose said:
First of all, certified airplanes don't all cost $300k. Second of all, and I really am loath to use this phrase, if it "flies..., rent it" (I won't fill in the rest). Find a good FBO. Join a flying club (a good one, anyway). It just ain't worth tying up all your financial resources on the overhead necessary to own a plane.

And to be honest, it doesn't bother me to something other than fly on my off days. I love my job, but I fly all day. When I have time off, I want to do something else. That's part of what keeps me loving my job so much. And that's why I won't buy an airplane.
Show me a certified airplane on floats that'll do what the Kifox does that you can rent and I'll sign up today!;)

I agree on the second paragraph.......or at least have forced myself to accept the inevitable......It's just too d*mn expensive anymore!:mad:
 
I wouldn't buy it except as a re-build project, and for a project price. I have flown experimentals, and a well built and engineered one is just as safe and strong as many certified aircraft, but this sounds like a lemon to me.


A. Two stroke Rotax that's been sitting for over a year? Plan on an overhaul, consider yourself lucky if you only have to rebuild the carb(s) and clean out the fuel system.

B. Floats? From what (admittedly little) I know about float planes, you want an engine that starts and idles very easily and reliably. You'd better be, or have close access to, a Rotax wizzard for that. You don't want to be floating across the big lake downwind trying to get that Rotax to start after it loaded up. This wouldn't be nearly as critical on wheels. You could always push it back to the hanger.

C. Plan on there being other problems as well. Any airplane suffers from sitting.

If you want a project, and the airframe and fabric are good, offer him $10k and tell him he can keep the engine.
 
Vector4fun said:
If you want a project, and the airframe and fabric are good, offer him $10k and tell him he can keep the engine.
Good call, I forgot to mention that part on my original post... definitely lowball the seller on the price tag due to the fact that it's gonna need some work.

As for the discussion about crankshafts, Uncle Sparky was right on the money; there's another good reason for a teardown/overhaul before flying this Kitfox. Wouldja believe the Rotax recommended service life for a 2 stroke crankshaft is 300 hours or 5 years? That's not TBO, that means throw out the old crank and get a new one. Since it has only 55 hrs the crank might be okay, but I'll bet the 5 year mark is pretty close by... granted, it's not mandatory, but worth looking into.

http://www.greenskyadventures.com/EngineServices.htm Read the Engine Services page, some good info there.
 
Uncle Sparky said:
I agree on the second paragraph.......or at least have forced myself to accept the inevitable......It's just too d*mn expensive anymore!:mad:
Doesn't being an A & P make owning a plane a helluva lot cheaper though? If you work on a plane yourself it can't be that expensive.
 
On many of the smaller engines that were not originally designed for aviation applications(VW conversions being public enemy NO.1), crankshaft endplay/runout should be checked. Many engines are originally designed with a simple, single dimension, twisting load in mind. Throw a prop on the end of the crank and now you have a large disc, spinning through the air and being pulverized by wind and G-force. Of course if this engine has a PSRU this problem won't be such a big factor but in my opinion, the engine probably wasn't designed for a PSRU either. Regardless, as an A&P myself, I would bring a dial indicator and an Eddy Current tester or Dye Kit.
Most mechanics dont' own eddy current testers and aren't qualified to use one. Splitting an engine case as part of a prebuy inspection? Insanity. You're planning to split a case and then test the crankshaft of an engine with an eddy current tester and dye penetrant, as part of a prebuy inspection for a client? What are you going to do if the client doesn't buy the airplane?

I would never permit a buyer to split the case of the engine I'm selling. Not in a million years...unless you're willing to buy a new engine to put back on, or sign your life away putting the case back together. The liability for that little trick is enormous.

If a buyer wants to go to that length and then be assured of buying the engine, fine. You don't take the engine apart on an airplane when you inspect the airplane, any more than you take the engine apart on a car when you look at buying one.
 
This Kitfox can be a safe, reliable, affordable way to get your own airplane, but I absolutely wouldn't consider it ready to fly! Like others have said, forget using that Rotax 618. Offer a price for the airframe only, and consider it a project. Find at least a 4-stroke Rotax that's in current production, or install another engine like the Subaru auto-conversion.

As for the airframe, find an EAA Technical Advisor to look over the airframe for problems. Once he's comfortable everything on the airframe is in compliance, look for an A&P who is willing to work on it. There are plenty of mechanics who will work on experimental aircraft, but the standards are obviously the same as certificated aircraft. That means if the builder made a lot of trips to Home Depot for parts to complete the plane, you're in for a huge bill for certificated parts.

Experimental aircraft are generally the most economical only for the original builder, since you can do your own Condition Inspections (the Experimental version of an annual). Once sold, unless the builder is willing to keep inspecting the aircraft, it becomes a hassle to maintain.

Absolutely look into getting a ballistic chute for the plane if you buy it. Not only for the fact that it has a non-certificated engine, but also because the wings are foldable for storage or transport. Flying one of those without a chute would make me nervous!



avbug said:
Bombardier, who owns Learjet, also owns Rotax. Lots of rotax out there in use. As for two cycle...did you know that many of the Oshkosh rigs that serve your crash rescue needs, the same vehicles that absolutely, positively MUST be reliable and ready to work, use two cycle engines?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. All of Oshkosh's CFR trucks are powered by Caterpillar diesel engines.
http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/airportmunicipal/home.cfm
As for the reliability of Rotax engines, the record speaks for itself. It's unrealistic to ask a modified snowmobile engine to produce maximum rated power for hours on end with absolute reliability. Besides the starting problems, carberetor problems, etc, Rotax engines simply have more in-flight failures. If you keep that in mind when you're flying, at least you'll be ready when it happens.

Ballistic parachute installations were never intended to save the aircraft, just the occupants. Anybody that has ever landed a round parachute might think twice about deploying such a syste in the first place.
That's true, but you have to agree that having the system would be a good idea in an aircraft with folding wings! If the engine quits, you don't need to use the chute (unless you're over solid forest or something). Just deadstick the plane on to a road or into a field, like you would with any plane. If a wing comes off, or if your elevator cable slips off the pulley and jams full nose-down, you're going to die unless you have a parachute system.
 
avbug said:
...do oil analysis, and have the aircraft thoroughly inspected...
Oil analysis on a 2-cycle engine??? Where do you pull the sample from? The oil injection tank? Or wipe it off of the fuselage and wring it into the sample jar? Sorry, I don't mean to be belligerent, but the closest I ever came to dying was in a float equipped ultra-light on floats with the very engine that was in the Kitfox. Granted, it wasn't the engine's fault - the propeller shed a blade the entire engine/prop ripped itself from the mounts. I was test flying a brand new factory built model. Our friend is looking at an experimental airplane with at least two previous owners, a 2-cycle engine, and only 55 hours TTAF. <Warning Flags> There is NO FREAKING WAY I'd get near that airplane without some very knowledgable assistance from the local EAA Chapter and only then it would have to have a ballistic chute installed before I flew it. But hey, that's just me.

'Sled
 

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