ACA cuts UAL Ties - possible new LCC

[Heavy Set]

Looks like ACA and UAL may cut the cord in IAD and O'Hare. UAL's negotiating leverage has gone too far and now the IAD hub will be hurt.... Nice to see that ACA has some BALL$... I am sure lease rates on 737-300/400s will be going up soon...

Good luck to all involved!



Article taken from Yahoo Finance:


Atlantic Coast Cuts UAL Ties, Will Start Low-Fare Carrier
Monday July 28, 7:38 am ET


DULLES, Va. -- Atlantic Coast Airlines Holdings Inc. (NasdaqNM:ACAI - News) confirmed plans to establish an independent low-fare airline, ending a relationship with UAL Corp.'s United Airlines.


Atlantic Coast has operated a low-fare service known as United Express but began exploring options when UAL filed for bankruptcy-court protection last year. The companies had worked together for 14 years, the Washington Post reported Monday.

Atlantic Coast said it expects to formally announce detailed consumer marketing and branding plans for the new low-fare airline in the near future and to introduce a complete advertising program about 60 days before the first day of service.

The beginning of Atlantic Coast's service as an independent airline depends on the terms and timing of its disengagement as a United Express carrier, which cannot be projected at this time. Atlantic Coast said these developments shouldn't affect its Delta Connection operation, based in Cincinnati and Boston.

Atlantic Coast plans to use its own 50-seat jets on routes of up to 1,000 miles but has selected Skyworks Capital to assist it in the acquisition of larger aircraft that would allow service on longer routes. The company continues to explore whether to use Airbus or Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - News) aircraft.

The carrier has been in talks with other airlines regarding potential code- sharing opportunities in which Atlantic Coast would remain independent and operate under its own brand.

The company hired GKV Communications to handle its advertising and marketing campaigns.

Company Web site: http://www.atlanticcoast.com

 

[Pilotbob3]

it will never work....mark my words.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Shirley, you can't be serious........

 

[KingAirer]

...and dont call me shirely.

 

[General Lee]

A LCC with RJ's? How did Midway do? Oh yes, they might get some airbuses and boeings. How long will it take to train the people and get the planes? This seems very risky. Will they hook up with Branson? We know that in the face of real LCC competition (in Europe with Virgin Express) Branson has tanked. I hope they know what they are doing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Extra300S]

Guys/Gals,


$20.00 Bucks says that a USAir/United merger is still in the works and United is HAPPY to be rid of ACA.

This might have been planned a long time ago......

As far as ACA operating Boeings or Airbus, I think Skeen and Moore are just trying to buy some time so they can parachute to safety and leave the ACA employee's high and dry. I would be very CAREFUL if I were still and ACA employee.

Good luck to ACA, but I think I smell a RAT.....

 

[temcgrew]

it will never work....mark my words

Sounds good Beavis!!! that's what people told orville and wilbur!!

I heard the the owner of Virgin Atlantic has been in the ACA corporate offices alot this past month!

Isn't it easier to buy into something rather than starting from scratch? Sounds like a good match to me!!

 

[General Lee]

Didn't Midway Airlines have an East Coast hub (RDU) and have some RJ's and mainline aircraft? (F100's, 737-700's and A320's way back when) How did they do? They are going to have a lot of competition on the East Coast-----but their saving grace could be IAD. The question is who will United bring in to IAD to feed them? I think I read something about TSA----but how about Mesa and Skywest?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

General,

I think you are off on the second post..but i believe you hit the nail very close to the head with Sir Ricard and ACA? Time will tell, but I wonder if competeing with 6 LCC's (SWA, AAI, JBLU, FRNT, SPIRIT, Song(sort of LCC)) might get difficult.

 

[Skank]

At least they are refusing to submit to the whims of United. Someone had to end the race to be the lowest bidder for that UEX flying. ACA just did it. I hope they give United a run for their money at IAD.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

In an official press release last week, Branson (Virgin) announced that he will be starting a LCC in the US in Jun of 2004. It will be a startup.

Now, ACA may be negotiationg to Code Share with Virgin. That is a possibility.

They are planning now to buy larger aircraft. SkyWest also was doing that previously as a contingency plan, based on their Delta/UAL situation.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Extra300S]

ACA cannot operate on there own....I have a lot of friends flying over there and they are worried to say the least. It is EASY to run an airline and getting pay for empty seats, and having no Res. center or real day to day marketing.


I hope I am wrong, read below, Kerry will have to keep a "Skeen" eye on things to pull off a LCC operation.





heres some of what our full fare people think of ACA.

http://www.flyertalk.com
FlyerTalk Miles


United

Chaos at IAD T Gates
I've never seen anything quite like this.
Yesterday (noon Friday), I was at gate T-14 at IAD. 6 flights, all regional jets, were due to get out of T-14's 3 doors, within 15 minutes.

There were not enough seats for the estimated 300 passengers. People were seating on the floor, in the aisle, just everywhere! There was no PA system (or maybe it broke), so the 5 or so agents on duty were yelling out to passengers with boarding information. It didn't help that 3 flights to New York - JFK, LGA and EWR were leaving within 5 minutes of each other, so passengers were shuffling around when they got to the wrong door.

To make matters worse, the Toronto and LGA flights were overbooked and a number of passengers were denied boarding. I noticed at least 4 on the Toronto flight and 1 on the LGA flight.

Is this normal? Atlantic Coast operates these United Express flights. I hope UA is watching, because they are scaring UA passengers away. I, for one, will NEVER fly Atlantic Coast flights again.

lychic,
Those gates are the worse.... I was there last week when I was doing my 16 segments in 2 days... it was terrible.

I sent an email to United detailing the problems... got a nice letter back... but doubt much will change since it is Atlantic Coast Airlines.

I found the gate staff to be downright rude and anti-customer.
this normal? Atlantic Coast operates these United Express flights. I hope UA is watching, because they are scaring UA passengers away. I, for one, will NEVER fly Atlantic Coast flights again.--

seem to care.. AND from the way UA is talking we will have to put up with more of it since regional jets are the UA thing these days.
ORD is just as bad and to have 2 places like this doing high volume traffic with UAX
feeding UA flights WILL come back to haunt United. The attitude that, "Oh well it is United Express and not us" is foolish..THe planes are UNITED express. If your name is on the product it is YOURS not someone else.
United Express is United. It would be interesting to see if UAX arrival and departures go into the UAL statistics.
In ORD they are notorious, Even among UA staff, for listing the aricraft as on time even though it isn't at the gate.


I went through there on Tuesday and it was the same way at the "A" terminal. It seemed every flight that was going out was overbooked or overwieght.
I'm glad I don't go through this terminal a lot. Makes you really enjoy SFO and LAX!

've been flying UA everywhere for years. I now avoid UAX, IAD, and ACA whenever possible.
Some of the agents and supervisors are very unprofessional. It's not uncommon to hear them arguing loudly with each other.

The announcements are difficult to understand, with all the accents.

The terminal is usually like a zoo.

The planes are uncomfortable.

If you're listening United, you need to keep real United metal flying in my markets. Otherwise I'm likely to shift to the discount carriers. Discount carriers with big planes, are better than CRJ's and J41's any day.



If you're listening United, you need to keep real United metal flying in my markets. Otherwise I'm likely to shift to the discount carriers. Discount carriers with big planes, are better than CRJ's and J41's any day.

Boy, I second that!

I hate those regional jets.

As UA moves to more "regional jets" that fly up to 1000 mile routes, i am moving my carcass to other airlines.

RJ seats are narrower, they don't recline, and the single cup of soda routine gets very tiring.

They are not the future of air travel for me, that's for sure. I would sooner drive 2 hours and fly on a mainline jet, or fly Southwest or America West, then fly an RJ to a "Rejional jet market" like Los Angeles.



Are the T gates where the PVD flights normally leave from? Late last summer I flew thru IAD and vowed, never again. The boarding area was a disaster with rude agents, rude pax, etc and it reminded me of a refugee camp of sorts. I arrived to this scene after hiking from the end of the mid-field terminal to those white things and then hiked to far end of the next terminal to other gate. The most exhausting part of a cross-country vacation.

was transiting through IAD from MUC a couple of days ago and IAD was a zoo. There were long customs and security re-screening lines. The terminals were packed and the UA staff was not very friendly which, given the chaotic place they work, is not too surprising.
While transiting IAD and waiting to board an IAD-SFO flight, I observed that IAD is just so dreary and is in major need of a facelift. Of course, arriving from shiny new MUC Terminal 2 didn't help matters but, nevertheless, IAD is a place I'm not looking forward to transiting through in the near future.

I recommend that those headed to the west coast and are coming from Europe take UA's nonstop flights to LAX or SFO or even ORD if possible.


Is this normal? Atlantic Coast operates these United Express flights. I hope UA is watching, because they are scaring UA passengers away. I, for one, will NEVER fly Atlantic Coast flights again.
----------------------------------------

Not only is UA watching, their the ones doing the over booking.


've slept overnight in the T gates!
That was the last straw, I am now a champion IAD hater and will never fly through there again. It is the worst intl airport in the world.

As I read the first post I had flashbacks. Imagine the same situation and then cancel every flight. Alarms going off all over the place, complete imcompetence from the woman who was in charge.

Now I go the long way thru ORD to europe.


* agree. Used to do the T-gates thing twice a week -- I had major customers in IAD and I live/work in RDU. The ACA people at IAD are by far the worst I've ever seen, only made worse by the horrific scheduling and overbooking.
To anyone listening, avoid IAD's T-gates like the plague.

A flight attendent told me they always "lose" their passengers, i.e. people get lost trying to reach the T-Gates.
I can only sum from all your responses above - AVOID T-GATES LIKE THE PLAGUE!

How can UA let ACA get away with this? Its absurb!



I've slept overnight in the T gates!
That was the last straw, I am now a champion IAD hater and will never fly through there again. It is the worst intl airport in the world.

As I read the first post I had flashbacks. Imagine the same situation and then cancel every flight. Alarms going off all over the place, complete imcompetence from the woman who was in charge.

Now I go the long way thru ORD to europe.




I'm still angry after getting stranded twice overnight last winter from UAX cancelled flights at IAD - while everyone else operated normally in light snow. I'm sure this used to happen less when UA had to pay for Hotel rooms on all cancelled flights. Now this disincentive has gone. Furthermore, I've caught UA and TA trying to route me onto UAX aircraft, when the D-class european return fare rules allow an F/C-class seat. Don't allow yourselves to get caught with this nasty trick.


The flight schedules and staffing at the T gates are random, and there is nothing you can do to avoid them. Every flight of the day to the same city departs from the same gate. Saves a lot of headaches when it comes to irrops. Now, all of the ZW operated flights operate out of A2/A4. This includes all RDU flights, including those that are operated by ACA. You will find the staff rotated as well.
At every schedule change, they jumble around the flight schedule and gate assignments, so what is at A-gates one month may be at T-gates another month.

Yes, throwing all of the NYC flights together may seem to create havoc, but a lot of people will try to standby for flights to any NYC airport. Can you imagine standing by for JFK at T-gates when the next flight to LGA is at the A-gates in 5 minutes? You won't make it.

UA is familiar with the ACA situation. In fact, they help create it. Do you really think that ACA does their own flight scheduling? No. UA knows ACA's performance is in the gutter. UA has also not signed an MOU with ACA regarding future UAX work once the current contract voided during BK proceedings.

Oh, and the word on the street with the single glass of soda, etc, is that once current stock is out, there will be no more soda at all on ACA flights.

Originally posted by DHAST:
Yes, throwing all of the NYC flights together may seem to create havoc, but a lot of people will try to standby for flights to any NYC airport. Can you imagine standing by for JFK at T-gates when the next flight to LGA is at the A-gates in 5 minutes? You won't make it.
Last summer it was the opposite and that was exactly my problem. LGA/EWR flts were leaving out of A, and the JFK turbo-props from T. I was booked into JFK.
There was no way for me to monitor the situation from down there.

Crossing down into the T gates is like crossing into Babel.





Last time I was in ord forget which uax gates it was but was comming off an nw flight and walked by some uax gates at which a lady was standing on something forgot what(might have been the check in desk) with a bull horn yelling out flights.It seems that many many flights were oversold it was total chaos.The lady with the bull horn did not seems very pleasant LOL.

 

[spinup]

The overcrowded gate situation should take care of itself. Once ties are severed, you'll be able to play Frisbee golf in there. CSR attitudes and on time performance won’t be that simple.

 

[trainerjet]

Once ties are severed, you'll be able to play Frisbee golf in there.

COOL!!

 

[canyonblue]

Good luck to my former ACA buds. United has brought this on themselves by lowballing the UAX flying. Even as a former ACA pilot I know who is now at UAL put it, "The new Tiffany Service from UAX" Transtates and Mesa. Funny how UAL dropped both of them as feeders a few years ago but now with no cash goes walking around like a bum getting handouts, "Buddy can ya spare a feed?"

 

[AirBoard]

Good luck to my former ACA buds. United has brought this on themselves by lowballing the UAX flying. Even as a former ACA pilot I know who is now at UAL put it, "The new Tiffany Service from UAX" Transtates and Mesa. Funny how UAL dropped both of them as feeders a few years ago but now with no cash goes walking around like a bum getting handouts, "Buddy can ya spare a feed?"

Exactly!. Besides what do you nay sayers expect ACA to do? Capitulate to every penny pinching whim of UAL and their high priced consulting firms OR be proactive and cut the life boats loose.

Not trying to desert the passengers but I'd rather try to paddle to shore now than help the crew patch the hole with duct tape on the way to the bottom.

 

[colored_airman]

I agree with the majority of the board, ACA is screwing themselves but time will only tell. With that said that could mean 2 airlines going belly up. Now wouldn't that Suck!

 

[Boeingman]

The impression I get is that it is a desparation move to distance themselves from UAL. Perhaps they are privy to some financial information that UAL may not be around much longer?

This is a very dramatic action and there must be some serious issues to cause a split like this.

Handwriting on the wall?

 

[spinup]

BM,

ACA is not privy to any inside UAL information. Allowing any contractor this access would be insanely counterproductive to negotiations.

It’s very simple. ACA's an underperforming contractor that didn't like the slice of pie UAL offered. So they took their ball and went home.

CB,

That's the tough thing about being a contractor; you can and will be undercut. The mistake you make is thinking ACA is somehow righteously due a better deal. Not so. As far as Transtates and Mesa becoming code partners, they'd be hard pressed to under perform ACA; however, I would initially expect to see an Increase in USAirways express code presence compensating for any shortfall in IAD feed.

 

[j41driver]

From 7/30/03 USAToday.com....

I found this on http://www.usatoday.com/travel/today/sky.htm

"United may drop Dulles hub in ACA split
If Atlantic Coast Airways really does ditch United to become a stand-alone low-cost carrier, Washington Dulles' days as a United hub could be numbered. One analyst notes that because ACA controls its own slots at Dulles, United can't bring in a replacement carrier. "You lose that kind of revenue at one of your weaker hubs and you have no ability to bring in a replacement carrier, what do you do? You close down the hub," an analyst told Rocky Mountain News. However, one beneficiary could be Denver International Airport, which would likely see a gain in international flights. Analysts say Denver could pick up some of United's nonstops to Europe if the carrier does abandon its Dulles hub. "