Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

? about airshow MIG formation accident

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

dtzl

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
30
About a month ago, I was watching a Discovery Channel or History Channel show about accident investigations (aircraft, trains and ships). One of the accidents involved two MIGs at an airshow. Here is the scenario as best as I can remember:

A two ship takes off with about a 500-1000' interval. The lead MIG rotates, gets the gear up and goes into a loop parallel with the takeoff runway. #2 follows lead. However, as #2 approaches vertical (I would guess 60-75 degrees nose high), he loses sight of lead who has gone into an overcast deck.

#2 pilot testifies that he continued the loop with lead lost sight, but increased his pull as to fly a smaller loop thinking he would keep spacing by flying inside of lead, acquire lead on the backside of the loop once back out of the weather and rejoin to continue their demonstration. After each jet pulled out of the loop, #2 was in front of lead (still lost sight) and they smacked each other sending both to the ground, both pilots ejecting safely.

A couple of other pilots (British, I think) said this was the right thing to do when losing sight of lead in this situation. Maybe this was some professional courtesy on their part, but that seems to be the last thing I would do. I would think that #2's energy level would have been high enough to roll and pull the opposite direction, do an immelman and end up heading away from lead, call lost sight then coordinate a rejoin below the weather.

I am wrong here? I'm an AF heavy guy, but did do the -37, -38 and -34 IP formation thing. Can any of you fighter guys with more form experience comment please?
 
That is absolutely idiotic. Basic principle of flying formation - if you lose sight of lead, you lag off from his last known position. I would think an experienced pilot would realize that pulling a tighter loop would put him in front of his flight lead.
 
Unfortunately, it would appear that #2 grossly violated lost wingman procedures. If you lose sight of lead in a turning trail, the LAST thing you want to pull more G than lead. THAT sets you up for a turning rejoin, however unintended. What should have been done is to inform Lead that #2 is "Lost Wingman," Lag lead's turn, and get positive altitude separation that is coordinated verbally. In this case it looked like a case of fangs-out airshow fever . . . . . rather die that look bad.
 
Draginass said:
What should have been done is to inform Lead that #2 is "Lost Wingman," Lag lead's turn, and get positive altitude separation that is coordinated verbally.

I would have called "blind" instead of "lost wingman"...unless he was no joke in the weather. And, if he was in the weather and on the inside of the turn, 2 whould have told 1 to roll out and continued with his turn. Calling "blind" with your altitude is what we teach if the dude has lost sight...VMC of course.
 
Here aer some more questions: was 2 blind (VMC)? or lost wingman (IMC)? Was 2 in radar trail? and last question: who gets the kill?

Bummer position to be in...in the weather, top of a loop (inverted) and flying as 2.

If the contract required 1 to be predictable, I would have done a "two circle loop" to a knife edge pass...show-center! :D

I hope they were on the radios when they lost sight. At least 1 could have been directive, and looking for 2...if there was time.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top