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A&P course

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tinman

99.....again?
Joined
Jul 27, 2002
Posts
223
What's the best study course for getting my A&P? King? Are there any others? Thanks in advance!
 
Have you got 30 months of full time practical experience as an aircraft mechanic, and the requisite signoffs to take the tests, yet? That's going to be your biggest hurdle.

If you're trying to wrap it up and already have the knowledge, understand, and skill for the certificate, then your best bet will be any of the prep courses out there. King (formerly Baker, I think), and a number of others are available. Pick up a copy of Trade A Plane, and you'll find about half a dozen or so ads for different companies that will help you.

When I did mine, I studied privately, and took the test with a designated examiner, on my own. Depending on your level of personal preparation and your study habits, you might want to try one of the week-long courses, instead.
 
I've got about 22 months. So I guess I could just do the airframe or the powerplant, then do the other one later. I'm just checking things out for now. We've got a FSDO guy that stops by our shop and I was going to get him to sign me off.
 
I would recommend waiting for the 30 months and ensuring that you have full documentation. While you can get by with a statement by a mechanic or inspector with whom you've worked, I would do more. Compile a list of all the aircraft you've worked on (as best you're able) by N number and type. Compile a list of all the maintenance operations you've done, listing each thing to show a complete break down of your experience.

This, along with an affadavit by a supervising mechanic, can be turned in when you want your authorizations to take the knowledge (written) exams. You'll have three exams; the general, airframe, and powerplant. Then an oral exam, and a practical test. The test is usually longer than what you're accustomed to; they typically last one or two days, and aren't generally less than about eight hours long.

One drawback to doing it based on experience is that you sometimes don't end up with experience or knowledge on many of the areas to be tested. You'll be expected to be able to do anything that someone coming out of a maintenance school could do, so be prepared. This will include searching aircraft records, performing maintenance entries, a thorough understanding of aircraft paperwork including AD's, histories, aircraft specifications and type certificate dats sheets, etc. You'll need to understand brakes, timing mags, riveting (including being prepared to answer standard questions about rivet and edge spacing, sizes, drill sizes, etc), hydraulics, propeller balancing, and every other aspect of performing maintenance such that you can answer questions on each subject and then demonstrate ability while doing it.

You'll only be tested on a certain few items, however. When you go to the prep courses, they'll usually have you concentrate strictly on the things they know the examiner will be asking about. In my case, I did it on my own, and didn't know what the examiner might ask, so I spent a year of concentrated study preparing for the test. I had an eight hour oral exam, and then had to demonstrate timing mags, researching AD's, making maintenance entries, riviting, balancing a prop, inspecting an aircraft (eg, 100 hour inspection) for certain requested items, and so forth.

I believe it's ASA that puts out the study guides by Dale Crane. They're excellent prep materials, and are formatted like the written study guides that you're used to seeing. They also include oral exam study guides in the back, and an additional oral exam study guide is available to prepare. It seemed to me that many of the questions actually asked during the oral portion of my exam were from that study guide.

Interestingly, when I was taking the test, the examiner walked me through a warehouse filled with various parts, components, structures, etc. Part of the exam included identification of components and parts, and answering questions about them. Many were parts I had only read about, and had never seen. He told me then that it might be the last and only time I'd see them.

As it turned out, within two weeks of completing the exam, I was working on all the things he said I'd never see; large radial engines, expander tube brakes, etc. I was performing functions he commented I'd probably never perform, like fabricating hose assemblies and doing large scale heavy maintenance at the depot level. At the time I took the test, I thought it wouldn't be much more than something on a resume. However, I took it very seriously, and was prepared, and as it turned out, it's been heavily used ever since.

If you don't own them now, start purchasing tools. Get decent ones, even if you have to buy only a few over a long period of time. Don't get cheap tools, no matter what your budget or how great your temptation. A word of caution; MAC and Snapon are industry standards, and have always been popular because where ever you go you can find a truck, they come around weekly, and replace what breaks without reservation.

MAC has had a change of policy with their drivers in which it's largely up to the individual driver as to weather he or she will warranty your part. That can be a problem. I don't know that Snapon is the same...but get to know your local dealer and don't go with brand preference. Also, if you're starting out, don't get suckered into a brand name box...I've seen many guys get stuck into a twenty five thousand dollar tool box and soon find that their wages in the long term won't support it. I've seen divorces result over a box.

Craftsman makes as good as any (in truth, the same people that make Craftsman boxes make most of the boxes on the market); get one of their better boxes (rollaways), and it will be considerably less expensive than a Mac or Snapon.

Concentrate on the basics for now; a good setof screwdrivers, combination wrenches, 1/4" drive sockets and extentions, and a plier assortment to include duck bills, a good set of dikes, and several different needlenose pliers. Get a small set of ball pean hammer and soft-tip (rubber face) mallets. Add to these things as you can, one step at a time. Stubby wrenches are important. Flex sockets can be a life saver. Carry basic sheet metal tools; eventually you're going to want to build a bucking bar collection, some rivet guns, various rivet sets, etc. A compression tester, filter cutter, etc, will be used a lot. A timing light will get used a bunch.

I buy a lot of craftsman tools; they have a lifetime guarantee, and they're good tools for the most part. I also buy off the trucks, and mix and match my tools. Whatever you do, get decent tools, because you're livliehood depends on them. Get a decent pair of safety wire pliers; you're miles ahead to get a reversible shorty pair (the six inch); you'll be glad you did. Milbar or Robinson.

Get a decent multi meter. You can get some good ones from Sears. Don't buy Sears torque wrenches.

I hope some of that helps. Good luck.
 
Thanks Avbug, and you just answered my next question about tools. But I do have some more. Boxes. I had a tall one picked out but heard that tall boxes are harder to move around planes than the ones with the work tops on them. What's your take on those types?
I've got most of the basic tools, now I'm working on the test equipment. I saw a package that included comp. tester, mag test light, and a few other items for about $200. Stay away from that? Seemed like a lot for little money.
I'll let you know if there is anymore ?'s. Thanks for the help
 
Aside from clearance issues with tall boxes, something you really should consider is work area. Lower, wide boxes offer plenty of room for tools, and an important benifit; a work space on top of the box. When you remove a part or component, or are performing almost any operation, you'll want your box nearby with some work space on top to set things or work on them.

A wide, lower box will provide more workspace and more area. You can affix a small vise there, and put dense pressboard or other appropriate working surfaces on top of it.

If you can afford it, you're dollars ahead to get one with roller bearing drawers, and good wheels. Your box puts a lot of weight on those wheels; they need to last for quite a while. I like the Craftsman boxes. They make latching drawers now for their better boxes (the professional line is just as comparable to the brand name Mac's or Snapons), where the drawer handle must be lifted slightly to keep the drawer from sliding out. This option is really great for those times when the box gets bumped or pushed. With drawers that don't stay put, several drawers full of tools that slide out at the same time can cause a box to fall over and do a lot of expensive damage.

Boxes with electronic locks are popular, but personally I'd shy away from them. With my luck, the box would get stuck shut.

Brown tool company offers some good deals on tools. ATS has some good deals, some of the equipment isn't good, some is. I'll try to think of a few that are good places to go. Trade A Plane usually has some ads with good deals in them. Be careful on some of the test sets. If you're going to get a compression tester, consider one with a calibrated orfice for use on Continental engines, as many manuals specifically call for it. Thees tend to cost more. I believe Eastern offers one.

You probably won't be working on big bore engines, but you might consider one with interchangable orfices for both big and small engines...otherwise you'll need the bigger compression tester if you'll be working on larger radials or that kind of equipment. You never know.

Some equipment may wait for a while, like cylinder base wrenches; you will end making some of your own tools anyway, and you can hold off on tools you won't use so much. If you get on the mac or snapon truck, grab a dzus tool, as these are very useful. Also make sure you have a cotter key tool, as these get used constantly (along with a good set of picks). Some good files, and some needle files are very useful (Harbor freight makes inexpensive sets of needle files; you can get several sets and they'll last long enough for your own purposes...remembering that mostly you'll be filing aluminum or plastic).

Eventually you might want to consider a Dremel; these are useful little tools. Step drills, small air drills, a small die grinder (90 degree and straight) etc, are useful. Shop around.

Get some good flashlights. LED lights are plentiful now, and they last a long time. Get several different kinds, with some smaller maglights, and a good headlamp. One or two 2 or 3 D cell mags are useful. Several different types of inspection mirrors. The list is endless.

Rather than buy all the tools at once, get in the habit of buying one or two at a time, and paying them off before moving on. You'll be farther ahead, and avoid debt on tools; a mechanic's disease. Get in the habit of buying a tool and paying it off, and then getting another...keep acquiring tools. You may go a lifetime and never stop, but that way it doesn't kill you, and you'll amass a decent set. They're an investment you may never see returned dollar for dollar, but every time you use a tool that saves you labor and sweat, you'll be grateful, believe me.

While you're setting up your box, remember to get a good organization system. Have way of determining by a glance that all your tools are home when you've completed a task. Never let yourself get in the position of leaving a tool in your work. It can be deadly, and the liability enormous. Some mechanics refrain from engraving their mark or initials in their tools for this reason, but it's far better to be organized such that you always have tool accoutability after a job. Wrench trays, socket trees, and foam cutouts are all good accountability methods that show you when a tool is missing just by a glance.

Incidentally, I'd get an engraver and get in the habit of keeping your tools marked. It helps avoid confusion and bad feelings when working with others in the shop, and it can save you dollars when a mixup may occur with other mechanics tools (such as when several of you are working together on a job).

Good luck!
 
I just happened upon this thread and learned a bunch from reading it. Very interesting discussion.
 
Yes very interesting. I'm about to out grow my 2nd tool box. I want to get my third and final one, but I'm sure in 10 years I'll be thinking I need a bigger one.:D I'm looking at the Waterloo brand box, and I've been told that they make the toolboxes for Sears. It has the tabletop, but it is about a 1,000 bucks. Might have to save a little more.
 
Definitely save for a little while and get the shorter toolbox. I bought a fairly high-quality box for cheap at a scratch-and-dent sale, but it's too tall to open under a wing. Having to park it just a few more feet away turns into a major irritation the umpteenth trip for another tool. I added a sturdy shelf to the side, but it's really too small for most things I would like to put there. My next rollaway will definitely be short, with a pressboard top and a vise.

Avbug, why do you say to avoid the craftsman torque wrenches? I haven't had any problems with mine, but I've been using them for less than two years.

When I was first settling in at this job, I was walking to my car, intending to go buy a couple tools, when the snapon truck pulled up. The driver leaned out and asked "Hey, are you the new mechanic here?"
"That's right. Just started."
"So.... uhh.... d'ya want me to come by sometimes?"
"Sure. I'll buy some tools from you."
"Well.... ok.... I'll come by sometime."
And he drove off, I never saw him again.
 
Hey Matt, did you go to school to get your A&P or on the job? And did you like the way you did it? Thanks
 
I went to Spartan School of Aeronautics in Tulsa. I was happy with the quality of education there, but in hindsight it probably wasn't worth the inflated price tag.
 
Part of my reservation on the craftsman torque wrenches is that Sears doesn't back them up. I have a collection of torque wrenches, only one is a craftsman. I needed one that had a scale to 250 ft.-lb for certain functions, and got a good deal on a craftsman digitorque wrench. It's the one with the little window with the torque that appears underneath, on the handle.

The numbers in the little window are actually written on a foil tape that winds around the handle. The tape came loose and peeled back as the handle was rotated to set the torque. It couldn't be read, and was therefore, useless. I returned the wrench to Sears, who refused to warranty it. They told me I could buy a new wrench, but a tool subject to calibration such as that wasn't in the purview of warrantyable items. They told me the same thing applies to power tools.

I've not had any problems with craftsman power tools; I use a number of them. I've had very few problems with any craftsman tools; I like them. But I'll never buy another craftsman torque wrench. I didn't have any problems functionally with the wrench; it passed calibration without difficulty, and seemed to stay in calibration.

Some of the worst wrenches for calibration and quality are the Snapon torque wrenches. I found that very surprising, but I worked in a large repair station for a time, and we did much of our calibration in-house. We had equipment and personnel certified to do it. The only wrenches that ever physically came apart were snap-on, and they did it during calibration, and damaged or broke the calibration device each time.

The best wrenches we had some through for calibration, and the ones I typically use were purchased at CarQuest, believe it or not. They're ADT brand, and are accurate, affordable, and reliable.

Your experience with the snapon guy doesn't surprise me; some drivers (not just snapon; matco, mac, snapon, etc) seem really laxidaisical about getting and keeping business. I've had to track the mac guy down twice now; he doesn't show up at the hangar. He's hesitant to warranty, not knowledgable about tools...and kind of a jerk.

The snapon guy on the other hand is great to work with. It's been the opposite other places. It's like they say; you don't buy from the brand, you buy from the dealer. If a dealer won't give good service, then don't use him. There are certain tools that you just can't get anywhere else; you'll see them when you get on the truck. Go after those, and then leave the truck dealerships alone, if they're being jerks or simply not attentive enough.
 
Thanks for the advice.:)

You're the second person I've heard with the same problem with the digitork wrenches. Hmm...
 
Tools....

Wow,

Great advise, good tools and the proper tools make jobs go so so much easier.

Get a nice inspection mirror, I bought a cheap one, thinking it would do the job, it sucks droping the glass out of a mirror and trippling your workload when you have to dissasemble something bendy, complicated and scorching hot.

Hemastats<sp?> the clampy thing-a-majigs the Dr.'s use to clamp on to tender flesh are always a handy thing to have.

Man oh man...was just thinking about self induced pain...taking a piece of sharp safety wire straight under the fingernail and not having it stop until it hits home.
Sheesh that kind of pain takes like a good 30 seconds to hit the brain.

Good luck with the full time wrenching!!!
 
Hemastats<sp?> the clampy thing-a-majigs the Dr.'s use to clamp on to tender flesh are always a handy thing to have.
Still trying to picture those. Are they like regular clamps?

Man oh man...was just thinking about self induced pain...taking a piece of sharp safety wire straight under the fingernail and not having it stop until it hits home.
Just the other day....


...and finally, hey bobby, how about them Chiefs! Our beloved Broncos might not make it to the big game, but at least they shut up that b@stard Kenison(sp?)
 
Hemostats are used in medicine for everything from holding cloths and barriers together to pinching off a blood vessel. You can buy a fistfull of them at the local gun show for next to nothing. They're really handy for all sorts of applications.

I replaced a pitch trim sync switch and a push to talk switch the other day on a King Air. Once the switches are out of the yoke, they need to be desoldered. Once the solder connection is broken, the switches tend to shrink back into the yoke like traumatized blood vessels, never to be seen again. The soloution is to clamp them off with a hemostat.

The hemostat holds the wires right there, and also acts as a heat sink for the soldering process. They act like little self-clamping needle nose pliers. They come in all sizes and lengths, and are amazingly useful.
 

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