A/C Checkout Question for CFIs

[Spot]

When you checkout a private/instrument pilot in a new aircraft or a pilot who has never rented at your school:

What exactly is involved (maneuvers ets)?
How long does it take (what kind of ground)?
What are you looking for?
What would cause you to NOT sign the pilot off?

I've seen drastically different procedures at different places, just want to get a wider sample of policies.

Thanks,
Spot

 

[labbats]

Our school has a required checklist that entails steep turns, stalls, slow flight, emergencies, shorts, softs and spot landings. Plus a couple more. It's a smart move really.

All I look for is that the person can fly the plane without any help. If at any point I have to take control, I'll give them one more chance. If I have to take the controls again, I'll tell them to reschedule for another day and tell them exactly what to study. As long as you tell them the rules before the flight and adhere to them, you'll find everyone is surprisingly receptive.

The breaker on people who haven't flown in a while is proper pattern entry. I try and have them walk me through how they will re-enter the pattern before we fly. That way it's clear in their head, and no surprises.

Just let them enjoy themselves and stress that a checkout is just that, it's not a checkride. If something doesn't work out, fly again. No biggie.

 

[bigD]

This varies greatly from school to school, and a lot depends on the insurance company.

At some places, you might just do some landings, steep turns, maybe a stall or two. It's at the discretion of the CFI, and many time if he/she knows you already and knows you can fly, the check-out is pretty minimal.

And then at the other end, there's a list of required maneuvers that's pretty extensive, as well as a seperate check-out for whatever kind of flying you plan on doing. For example, a x-country check-out, a night check-out, and an IFR checkout where you do a handful of approaches.

So it varies quite a bit, at least around here.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aircraft checkouts

A checkout can depend on a lot of things, such as the school's requirements, insurance requirements, the checkout instructor's experience and degree of being anal, and the pilot's experience.

You want to be assured that the pilot is safe and can fly the airplane safely because your name will be in the person's logbook. Private PTS standards are a good guide, but you don't have to be overly fanatic about it. You usually can tell within a few minutes if your client knows what he/she is doing by the way he/she handles himself/herself and the airplane. A little basic airwork, a couple of emergencies, and some landings should do it. If it appears the person hasn't flown in a while, you might consider giving him/her three landings, including a no-flapper.

I agree with Labbats about providing a good pre-flight briefing so the person knows what to expect and what you expect, but bear in mind that you are dealing with a customer and not with one of your students.

Hope that helps a little more.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Had a 20,000 hour CAL pilot I was ready to give the ok to after a half hour. Most it's usually an hour plus with some ground/systems.

Sadly, I've found age is a reason I may not give the ok to someone on a checkout. Once over 70 it seems some of the people I've given checkouts to get very, very sloppy; missing tons of checklist items is the biggest culprit. I know not all septagenerians or octagenerians are like this but it's a noticeable issue.

I'm just looking to see if they are safe and can handle the aircraft confidently.


Mr. I.

 

[Cat Driver]

what did the 20,000 hour guy do as far as the flying goes?

Circuits?

The only problem big iron pilots have generally is the landing height judgement and the very low A.S.'s

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Circuits, ha-ha!!!

Had him do multiple stalls, steep turns, slow flight. He did two landings and a go-around. I told him I was ready to sign him off and he asked if he could do some more landings. He told me afterwards he had to really concentrate to not round out and flare at 50 feet plus.


Mr. I.

 

[Cat Driver]

Yeh, that is what I thought.

The picture you get approaching around 140 knots and slowing to a Vref just prior to touchdown and the height above the runway difference at touch down makes it hard to approach and land a light airplane.

And the number of total hours makes no difference.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

On the other hand:

The best pilot I ever checked out in our A36 and C182 when I was instructing was a 757/767 FO for CAL.

The airplane literally became an extension of his arm. This guy was good.

Did another checkout for a CAL 737 FO who hadn't flown a PA28 in years. Only took him about an hour.

I will have to agree with Mr. I, the older they get (post 65 in my book) the scarier it becomes. POWER, POWER, POWER, LEFT, NO, YOUR OTHER LEFT!!

Glad to be a retired CFI.

 

[wheelsup]

I flew with several Virgin 747 pilots. The first guy was awesome - really open to suggestions etc. and quite a good stick. No probelms on landing what so ever. We did a stall and some slow flight and landings. That was all that was needed.

The second guy was horrible. Hadn't flown a small a/c in almost 2 years. I covered up the instrument panel except for the alt. and he just couldn't hold altitude within +/- 300 feet, and thats when I reminded him what altitude to stay at. I gave him the 6 pack back and his eyes never left the instruments - and he still did bad!!

He was totally behind the 172!! No joke. His stall recovery was pointing the airplane 90 degrees straight down! In his comments, he said flying the 172 was harder than his 747...made me feel a little better! His hands probably hadn't touched a yoke in 15 years .

~wheelsup

 

[Cat Driver]

Das10 :

Post 65...the scarier they get...

Hmmmm maybe I should quit?

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Cat Driver, let me qualify my statement.

I used to work at a random part 61 FBO. We had guys and gals (mostly guys) coming in looking to learn how to fly. I saw an incrediable difference, in teaching people, as the decades ticked by. Guys in their teens and twenties picked it up in about 50 hours. Guys in their thirties about 60. Forties about 70 and so on. I have had two students that were retirement age or better. Both of them were diligent students. They read what I told them to read. They studied what I presented them. They asked questions. They were on time. But for the life of them they were and are bad pilots. I firmly believe the older you get the harder it is to learn something complex. I know there are exceptions. I am also in no way stating that we didn't have bad younger pilots.

Now, the second half of this. My mentors are a thirty something King Air driver, a fifty something ex-Delta 737 Capt., and two very capable sixty plus corporate drivers (Excel and B350) on our field.
If I implied that older pilots are scary I apologize, that was not my intent. I have only meet one experienced sixty plus pilot that I thought should give it up.

My statement and belief are that older experienced pilots are a wealth of knowledge and ability and that older students are a handful.

The best pilot I gave kudos to in my above post is six months from retirement.