A-10s to F-16s?

[Slye]

Hey guys. My goal is to become an F-16 or F-15 pilot in the Guard or Reserves. I've had some interviews the past two years but managed to elude any primary slots so far. I'm trying to expand my horizons and I've thought lately about applying for A-10 slots as well. I am wondering, if selected for A-10s, how hard would it be to get on with an F-16/15 guard/reserve unit down the road. I'm assuming A-10 pilots track to T-38s, and IFF. Are guard/reserve units willing to hire A-10 pilots and put them through the F-16 course? I'm assuming that would depend upon how bad the units need pilots. One of my main concerns (aside from getting selected in the first place) is getting on with a unit and then them closing down or converting to heavies (or UAVs with my luck). Nothing's wrong with heavies but I'm really set on fighters at this point for a variety of reasons. I've been reading articles saying that they're going to retire the A-10 (ref: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22858&highlight=a10*) and I'd hate to get selected, go to UPT, and find out my unit's aircraft is going away. Does anyone have an idea of which bases or aircraft types are more likely to close or switch aircraft or which units are more likely to stick around? Thanks in advance guys, I know its hard to answer these questions but I figured I'd throw them out there. Also, I know the A-10 is more of an attack than fighter aircraft, but if anyone has flown them and can comment on what they thought about them, and what the mission was like, that'd be great.

 

[AlbieF15]

The A-10 was "going away" in the late 80s/early 90s, but the Gulf War (round one) proved them extremely valuable for certain roles. Its like a cockroach...every time someone decides to kill it the darn thing still survives. We still don't have a CAS platform with the loiter capability or the intimidating 30MM for close contact "danger close" scenarios that can replace the Hog. Hog drivers live and breathe for CAS, and as a result by the time a guy in a 4FL in the Hog he's done a lot of close air support and is an expert at his task. Like F-15C guys, he tends to be a "specialist" instead of a "generalist", but that generally makes him pretty good at what he (or she...never thought I'd be saying that...) does.

I was on the ground as a Ground FAC in Iraq in round one, and these guys from the A-10 Reserve LA unit did a tremendous job killing tanks and providing support on Feb 25/26 (Geez...thats 13 years to the day!) as we took on the Medina Division of the Republican Guard. After expending all their mavericks on deep targets they set up a wheel cap under a 1000' overcast and did strafing right over us on some targets 1-2 miles ahead of us. While it is true that the Army loves a good airshow, and sometimes better results can come from attacks out of sight of the Army forces, in this case the weather had driven the grey jets out of the close fight but the Hogs could still stay and support us. It was a welcome capability to have that day...

The Viper is a great jet, and with JDAM, lightening pods, etc it can probably do a lot of great CAS work. However, that Viper driver, no matter how gifted, has a myriad of other missions to master as well as CAS. I'm not saying they can't do it, but as a FAC if I thought I had a "danger close" call I'd have much rather had a 4 ship of Hogs than Vipers. This isn't personal...its professional...and the Hog guys I worked with never let me down. Additionally, Viper units are not immune to downsizing either. Several midwest units have been converted to tankers in the last few years. I don't think picking a unit simply because it flies F16s gives you a guarantee you'll always have that option. The best gouge would be contact the units in question, and ask for their opinion on their role in 5/10 years. Even then they might not know for sure...

As for "what do you want to fly...?". You will likely fly an F-22 or JSF in your career. Go now where you can get wings. I never met a Hog guy I didn't like (almost, anyway...) and to a man every one of them loved the jet and the mission. No, you won't be doing 4 v 4s for a while, but blowing stuff up on the ground has its own rewards, too. Odds are you'll end up flying something faster and grey eventually...but I would never pass up a fighter slot if I got the chance to fly a Hog.

 

[Nikes]

As usual very well said, thanks for your input Sir.

-Nikes

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Just a guess here, but I'm willing to bet once you master the A-10 you probably wouldn't want to fly anything else. There's not much need for A2A in the past decade, so do you want to fly high and fast to drop bombs...or do you want to get down in the dirt to blow stuff up real good?

 

[A10puppy]

Hogs are the way to Go

No offensive to the Eagle Driver but the Hog is the best flying out there. I have 2800 hours and 19 years flying the A10 and the vareity of diferent missions is outstanding.

You have traditional CAS: Interdiction missions way past the FEBA (forward line of engaged forces) FAC (arborne forward air control) one of my favorite missions (very demanding), Escort C-130, helo, CSAR - Combat Search and Rescue ie the old Sandy missions form the Vietnam War, Joint Maritime Operations shoot navy boats near the beach, and defencive ACM (air Combat Manevers) ie how to do the circle the hogs and prevent being talked about in the Eagle squadron bar as being a Victume of Hog popping the Sport of Kings"

Good Luck Puppy

 

[pony251]

Tansition

Slye, worry about getting a slot first. That being said, I transitioned from the hornet to the hog. Like Albie said earlier, it was going from being a jack of all trades to a master of one. I love the airplane. There is nothing like sqeezing off some 30MM rounds and feeling the airplane shudder. The hog does what it was designed to do very well. Yes, it is old technology but it works. The Hog is funded past 2020 and there are upgrades being implemented now such as targeting pods and MFD's. With the next round of BRAC on the way, there is no guarantee any base is safe, including the Guard/Res ones. As an aside, and no offense to my fast mover fighter brethren, the hog has sent far more people to see allah in the air to mud arena and saved a lot more grunts. You can be a fighter guy for an entire career and never get an air to air kill, but you will probably get to put warheads on foreheads sometime during your career. We all have our parts to play.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Dosen't mean it's never gonna happen again. Just like when the engineers of the F-4 said guns are obsolete.... never know what the future can bring.

Rgrt! The future is always interesting...in hindsight.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Hey I've been reading articles saying that they're going to retire the A-10 (ref: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22858&highlight=a10*) and I'd hate to get selected, go to UPT, and find out my unit's aircraft is going away.

A couple of the most recent SECAF and CSAF speeches and policy statements have explicitly mentioned that A-10s are up for new avionics and new engines. They're not going away any time soon (and check af.mil to read those speeches if you wish).

 

[A-10yungin]

A-10 to F-16??? WTF

Slye,
WTF? A-10 to F-16, why would you want to do that? No offense to my Eagle and Viper bro's, but flying the 'Hog is where you'll see the best action. Sure it's not pointy or fast, but when the war happens we're in the middle of it. When it comes to Close Air Support, Forward Air Control, Combat Search and Rescue we are by far the most capable asset out there. Not only are we (as A-10 pilots) better at it, but the airplane is purpose built for it. The other jets say they do the job, but aside from hurling a few LGB's and JDAM's in there from 25000 feet, they can't get it done. CAS is your reason for life as an A-10 pilot (like Air to Air is to an 15C guy) and you can't just shove some other jet in there and expect them to have the same reverence for the job.
When the troops are in trouble, they want us not the Vipers or Eagles to save 'em. When a guy gets shot down, he wants us to come and get him. So I guess my point is, if you want to be an A-10 pilot...good on ya. You'll love the job. If, however, you want to use the Hog as a stepping stone to a "pointy nose" jet....F--- Off!!We can get by just fine without you. Keep applying to pointy nose units and good luck. We'll take dudes who want to be here, thanks.
Also, FYI, in the last few years the only guard units that have converted to heavies have been Viper and Eagle units....not a single Hog unit.
Anyway, take care and have fun looking for a job.

 

[spanky2]

Last month, I watched ANG Hogs from Bradley CT droping GBU-12s with a L-II TGP. Is nothing sacred? I never flew the Hog. I have "fought" the Hog. The Hogs nose just keeps coming around too fast. Use the vertical, own the vertical, sure, but eventually you gotta wrestle in the mud and get dirty. Yuk. Hog drivers are GREAT and kinda like Rodney Dangerfield. Want air support...? Find some Hogs....and they are getting new toys.

 

[usmc33]

Go Hogs

Hey, the HOG is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I want to fly HOGs, who do I talk to?

 

[A-10yungin]

Pod Hogs

Yup Spanky, the hog is now TGP equipped. CT and MA ANG went to war with the pod over in Iraq and really showed what it could do. My squadron (PA) is currently going through the pod upgrade. They are cool. I guess the challenge is still looking outside like 'Hog Drivers and not staring inside all of the time like pointy nose guys.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Re: Pod Hogs

Yup Spanky, the hog is now TGP equipped. CT and MA ANG went to war with the pod over in Iraq and really showed what it could do. My squadron (PA) is currently going through the pod upgrade. They are cool. I guess the challenge is still looking outside like 'Hog Drivers and not staring inside all of the time like pointy nose guys.

One of our guys at ExpressJet flies for you guys (JC)...met him when he was in requal training after his MLOA. What a great guy. Seemed to embellish what the Hawg is all about. Low key, but produces results. He didn't ooze one ounce of the typical "I'm a fighter pilot" mentality. I am proud that my airline has guys like him defending our country on his "days off."

Sam

 

[A-10yungin]

Yeah,
JC is a cool dude. I think you'll find most A-10 dudes are laid back.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Yeah,
JC is a cool dude. I think you'll find most A-10 dudes are laid back.

I'd agree. I met a CT guy who flies for AA during the week. Another great guy...laid back when telling his stories to me about his experiences in the desert. Thanks guys!

Sam

 

[spanky2]

A-10ynugin,
It's called being in the "drool bucket" and it is a major eye-magnet. Don't know if I could fly without a RADAR though...and Link-16 is way cool. I know a couple of guys who crashed doing night TFR / TGP ops. Be careful, the ground is hard.

 

[Slye]

Guys, I appreciate all of the feedback. After taking a look at the A-10's mission and capabilities, I would feel privileged to fly one and I definitely wouldn't use it as a stepping stone. I plan on applying to the A-10 units this year as well. I guess you can't easily narrow down a particular location or airframe that is more likely to close so I'll just have to ask during any interviews what they feel their mission will be like in 5 or 10+ years.


Mud Eagle: I searched af.mil for those speeches with no success. If you know where I can find them I wouldn't mind taking a look at them. Thanks.

 

[av8instyle]

CAS is your reason for life as an A-10 pilot

Kind of a racing analogy here: The tracks do change on the IRL circuit, but in the end all they ever do is turn left.

The A-10 is truly the CAS king, no doubt, but we get to do everything in the Viper, and it's a rocket! My squadron came back from a DCA role in Iraq last year, only to turn around this year for a hack at ...CAS. Although I admit I'll probably never get a guns track on a MiG 29 in wartime, I still get to train to it, and that's friggen fun!

 

[AlbieF15]

I work with an Eagle driver who had to notch when shot at by a Mig-25 in the early 90s. Luck, timing, and that guy turned and got away.

Later (I think the same day) a LTC Viper Driver (later an OG) shot and killed another offending Foxbat with an Amraam.

Never say never, AV8INSTYLE...and fight like you train. You cannot control your destiny, but you can be ready when destiny shows up at the door.

 

[A-10yungin]

CAS

That's my point av8. The only dudes who think CAS is CAS is CAS are the guys that suck at it. CAS from 25-35k and 15 nm away is not CAS. Real CAS is always different and always challenging. It's also getting down to 5000 ft over Baghdad in the middle of the night because there are dudes dying down there and the Mud Hens and Vipers won't come below the wx. Unlike guys with an air-to-air commitment, we train every day for a job that we do every day! I don't know a guy who knows a guy who had to react to a missile shot once, 10 years ago. I'VE had to react to a SAM shot, a AAA shot. I'VE had to help dudes out in the mud. The same applies to most of the dudes in my squadron and in 'Hog squadrons all over the world. Hogs train for CAS and then go out and do it...all of the time. It's real easy to say, "I talked to a ground guy on the radio and heaved a JDAM through the wx at him, so I am now a CAS platform"....WRONG. I know you guys have a lot on your plate and that's cool, but you can keep "always turning left" and let us help the dudes in the mud.