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709 RIDE??? insight please!!

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2 Points:

Above, someone cites a pilot who lost one of two engines for not making a 180 and landing at the nearest possible airport. There are reasons to continue a flight, on one engine, to the destination or a more suitable field.

Example: Numerous 1800 - 3000' strips are underneath you, and your Aerostar just lost the left engine. Thirty-five miles away, you have a 9000' runway with firetrucks, an ILS, etc. Oh yeah, the weather is MVFR and it's 03:30 in the AM.

I'm not saying the dude who almost ran his tanks dry is in the right. I'm just saying that ATC suggestions aren't always the most prudent, and there aren't any blanket rules that apply to all situations.

This brings me to my second point.

The 709 ride:

Because some FAA types have real flying experience and others don't, they may have trouble differentiating between brainy and retarded actions. This variability means that some dummies can get through a 709 ride with commendations for wearing polished boots to the ship. Other, sharp guys will be zapped because they didn't land with full flaps in wet snow.

In short, you don't know what you're going to get or whether you'll get. You could have a sharp guy or a beaurocrat with wings in the cockpit with you.

Finally, I've never taken a 709 ride. All my information is second hand from friends who have been required to go on 'em. Take all this with a grain of salt.
 
Jafo20:

I suppose anything is possible. But, do you have personal knowledge of someone without "real flying experience" becoming a FAA Operations Inspector? My experience might not be typical, but every Ops Inspector I've worked with has been a high-time pilot.
 
You know, I only know of one incident where an inspector made a questionable call during a 709 ride. Usually, they're exceptionally forgiving. Usually they're thoughtful aviators and human beings.

I mention flying experience because the inspector I'm thinking of had a lot of flight time, but his judgement was questionable. An elderly guy once took his Skyhawk off the end of a short, grass strip. He had been flying professionally since AN ranges were new to aerial navigation. Anyway, the guy goes flying with the inspector and makes a short field landing. He puts his Skyhawk into a slip with full flaps, and, according to my friends, the inspector decided to nail him for exceeding a limitation on the airplane.

The manual for a 1972 C-172 stated that strong nose down moments may be encountered with "certain combinations of forward CG and sideslip". According to the story I've heard, the old dude always carried a lot of weight in his baggage compartment, and nowhere does it day "slips with full flaps are prohibited" in his ship. He never exceeded a limitation. Plus, he has enough common sense to straighten out when he loses elevator effectiveness.

Now, we can all argue about whether or not it's smart to slip a Cessna with full flaps. We can argue about what constitutes a limitation or not. These are hazy points that leave room for interpretation.

What's clear from the story I've heard is this: Before the first turn of that plane's propeller, his inspector showed up thinking "It's time for this guy to hang up his wings.".


Now this story is thirdhand information. It may be completely inaccurate. The elderly guy could've totally fouled up in the air, and the slip with full flaps may have been preceeded and followed by some other significant incidents. Still, if it's true, the guy who's worried about his 709 ride should be prepared for this type of inspector.
 
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Isn't this thread great, Where else can you get third hand (maybe) information from some one who sorta maybe heard something but still has an opinion they want to "share" about something they may or may not know anything about. And then there are the people who hear this third hand maybe information and pass it on as the truth with maybe some additional added stuff to make the story better....

Got to love that.

JAFI.
 
JAFI said:
Isn't this thread great, Where else can you get third hand (maybe) information from some one who sorta maybe heard something but still has an opinion they want to "share" about something they may or may not know anything about. And then there are the people who hear this third hand maybe information and pass it on as the truth with maybe some additional added stuff to make the story better....

I always thought that's what flightinfo was all about... :confused: You expect REAL knowledge and info from a totally anonymous board? What, do you work for the FAA or something?! :rolleyes: :D
 
FracCapt said:
I always thought that's what flightinfo was all about... :confused: You expect REAL knowledge and info from a totally anonymous board? What, do you work for the FAA or something?! :rolleyes: :D

One can always hope, can't they.....
 
First, on numerous occasions I state that my facts are hazy and that I'm not an expert.

JAFI makes a good point. Because I'm not an expert, I shouldn't be offering my thoughts. It's dumb of me to share an opinion when I don't have personal experience with a 709 ride, and I didn't personally deal with the questionable individual. Although I have dealt with feds who have lmited experience and judgement, and I'm sure they've thought the same thing of me, I shouldn't be posting my thoughts in this thread.

Let me condense all my BS posts into this one statement.

Things don't always work as advertised. You can't depend on FAA personnel, mechanical systems, mental processes, electronic components or anything working as published all the time.
 
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Should be no surprises on a 709 ride. The letter issued will designate cause for the ride and what is being evaluated. Pick up a PTS for the certificate held and expect a ride that a minimum addresses the issue stipulated and at a maximum a full ride in accordance with the PTS for level of certificate held or being evaluated.

Dont know if this helps.
 

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