45 minute reserve fuel

[The FNG]

Think of the extra 45 minutes as ATC fuel. You plan your flight to a gnats ass, then add 45 mins. That's how ATC can vector you around WX, put you in holding, maintain you at a lower cruise alt, etc... ALL THAT is outside anything you planned for (or should be).

The regional captains suggestion to automatically declare min fuel is BS, UNLESS you cannot accept undue delay. NOT simply because you dip into your 45 mins. Otherwise, one could simply declare min fuel every flight and get direct everywhere...

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

True... AND.... fuel planning must include all KNOWN delays weather, ATC, etc

Paddy

 

[regionalcap]

FNG,
My remarks were not BS. I didn't say do it every time did I. I would hope that you would use good judgement. I was just saying that the tool is there if you need it.

 

[The FNG]

Hmmm... "I would also declare "Min Fuel" with ATC."

Yeah, right.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I agree with all that you can use your reserve fuel if needed, but at SkyWest we have what's called Contingency fuel which is extra on top of reserve fuel. It's used for extra vectoring, deviating, flying at a lower altitude or with higher than expected headwinds. I personally don't want to land with less than my reserve fuel but if the case arrises that it's necessary then I may. To plan a "bingo" fuel to go to an alternate I plan on landing with my reserve fuel at my alternate. Fuel is good, unless you're on fire.

 

[dispatchguy]

Its too simplistic to say that burning into reserve fuel is ok. Its ok ONLY if the flight was properly planned, and due to unforseen circumstances required burning into it.

Example 1: low density single runway airport, severe VFR, preceding trafffic blows a tire on landing - we hold for a bit to allow him to get off the runway, runway MX checks the runway, and we go in, land with 35 mins fuel on board. Smart? Maybe, maybe not. Yes we did burn into reserve, but the dude in the 172 blowing his tire was not foreseen. I wouldnt see a violation in that instance.

Example 2: Large hub airport with IFR conditions, ATC System command center has been issuing notice after notice of expected 30-45 minute holds into XYZ, expanded miles in trail, extended vectoring - you get the picture. We plan a close paper alternate, and 20 minutes of holding to accomodate all the folx (full flight). We start doing holding, early descent 150 NM before our original top of descent, 30 mile final approach legs (like at ORD), and we finally land with 40 mins fuel on board - the alternate wasnt needed and eliminated. Violation? I would say yes, because the flight wasnt properly planned - 30-45 minute expected holds were told to the dispatcher, and a myriad of other ATC surprises were told to be expected.

Example 3: Transcontinental flight to a hub airport with severe VFR. Due to a extremely strong jet stream heading eastbound (the winter kind), your flight was planned well off the beaten track to avoid the jetstream core, and planned to land with over an hours worth of fuel. You take a direct because center offers it and you dont feel like following the flight plan, and end up flying directly into the jet core - say 150 knot headwinds, dropping your planned GS to around 330 kts at FL350 (Ive seen it). After several contacts with dispatch to verify expected arrival fuel, "well be ok" is your only answer - not what your FMCS says. You land with 30 minutes fuel on board. I would say a definite violation. You were planned on a legal route, and took a direct right into the jetstream core.

So, its a bit simplistic to say burning into reserve is ok - it is ok only if the flight was properly planned and flown, and due to unforseen circumstances caused you to burn into reserve. My company requries a safety report to be filed anytime you land with less than reserve on board.

 

[The FNG]

Here's another one I see all the time: AC is fueled with ramp fuel from the dispatch release. The flight prior gets cxl'd and those pax are added to the flight. W/B gets recalcualted but the fuel numbers don't. Even if nothing happens there's a paper trail that could be bad juju. Joint responsibility means two asses on the line, Captain and Dispatcher.

 

[dispatchguy]

You can always call your dispatcher before push to verify that you still have enough fuel with the weight increase.....

 

[The FNG]

I agree. I just don't see it happen...