30 in 7

[D8drvr]

My very own survey. I've been getting interesting answers at work.

Can you exceed 30 hours in 7 days operating under domestic Part 121? If NO, please explain. If yes, please explain the situation.

Thanks

 

[dondk]

Yes... but it cannot be SCHEDULED.

You can exceed 30 in 7 only if it was not scheduled and beyond the control of the company. I think weather and ATC delays are the only things that count.

You know the drill... last flight of the trip, at 28 hours and SCHEDULED for a block of 1 1/2 hour block... You are legal to start, legal to finish. If weather delays (after you block out), enroute holding or anything else happens you can exceed 30 in 7.

Just remember your clock out time (15 minutes) counts too, they will tell you it does not but it does.

They can also assign you a part 91 trip that brings you over 30 in 7. I have had that happen to me twice. Did 28-29 hours and brought in a broken aircraft which they had me ferry to mx. Since it was not 121 nor scheuled I was given it. But that is another issue...

 

[D8drvr]

Thanks for the reply.

I agree that if you were in flight, on the last leg, and went over 30 in 7 it would be legal.

What if, your on day 7, have 29 hours already, last leg is scheduled for 2 hours? Everything was scheduled legally (no changes), delays because of weather added to the time. Can you take off.

Here's another. What if you have 26 hours in the first 6 days. The 7th day is scheduled for 5 one hour legs (5 hours for the day). Now your looking at 31 in 7. Can you even start the last duty day? Can you do the WHOLE 5 hours? What keeps you legal?

 

[dondk]

What if, your on day 7, have 29 hours already, last leg is scheduled for 2 hours? Everything was scheduled legally (no changes), delays because of weather added to the time. Can you take off.

Yes, you are legal to start and hence legal to finish, as long as NO changes were made to your schedule. It has to be the orginal schedule given to you BEFORE the first flight.

Here's another. What if you have 26 hours in the first 6 days. The 7th day is scheduled for 5 one hour legs (5 hours for the day). Now your looking at 31 in 7. Can you even start the last duty day? Can you do the WHOLE 5 hours? What keeps you legal?

Not with that schedule.. they will take out an out and back or something similar. They can schedule you for 4 legs and IF you over run, who cares, you were legal to start.

Where it comes into play will be your next week or set of trips.. if you only have 2 days off, usually your behind in hours at the start of a next set of trips.

 

[D8drvr]

I should have added to the second senerio that you were scheduled legally, 30 in 7. Running late brought you to 26 in the first 6 days.

 

[dondk]

I should have added to the second senerio that you were scheduled legally, 30 in 7. Running late brought you to 26 in the first 6 days.

I have had this situation, for the 7th day they took out 2 out and backs to keep me legal. The schedule is on a day by day basis, if you are 26 on day 5 (or any other day) with any more than a scheduled 4 hours for any other day they will adjust to keep you under 30 in 7. remember the responsibility goes BOTH ways, you cannot accept and they cannot give.

Regarding Jim's comment... Intially I was going to answer NO too that it was not legal.

If it scheduled though before the flight AND if everything was taken into account (wx, t-storms) before it launched then you would be techinically legal to start.

Jim's example has supplemental or international operations which in under different reg's. If I had to guess, and it really is a guess... I would think that because it is under seperate regulations BEFORE the domestic flight that the time would have to count. Then once under domestic regulations the pilot would not be legal for that part of the domestic operation. I say this only because my companies OP Spec's state any flying done BEFORE 121 scehduled operations MUST be taken into account, but those afterwards does not have to be taken into account. This is regarding flight time and rest limitations.

I know I have read somewhere that the AAL guys were challenging the rule as some flights between HNL and DFW during some parts of the year violate the FAR's (weather, winds, etc.)

good question though.. I wish I knew the answer....

 

[chperplt]

Just remember your clock out time (15 minutes) counts too, they will tell you it does not but it does.

Are you talking about the 15 minutes after block in before you are officially released at the end of your day? This time does not count toward any 30 or 34 in 7 issues.... Only rest requirements.

 

[FoxHunter]

There is no 30 in 7 rule for operations under FAR 121.500- FAR 121.525 Supplemental Regulations. All non skeds such as Evergreen, World, and scheduled cargo operators such as FedEx operate under these rules.

 

[LR25]

When you check in on that last day, they will schedule a deadhead somewhere on that days crew, or you will operate a few legs and they will deadhead you home.

Thats why sometimes reserve people double deadhead to do one or two legs than to an overnight just to deadhead back home the next day, that blows. Atleast you made some perdiem, RIGHT.

Anyway, there are several methods of getting around the 30/7 thing, some are just not that efficient.