299/297 Ride

[NYG-Flyer]

I'm Typed in lears and the company I worked for hired me as an SIC. They had me do the 135.293 for SIC at Simuflite only. I now have been hired elsewhere as a Captain. Can the 299/297 ride be done inhouse (or with the feds) or do I need to go back to Simuflite for the initial 299/297?

 

[RedGuy]

No you can do the 299/297 in house, we do them all the time.

 

[cvsfly]

I'm Typed in lears and the company I worked for hired me as an SIC. They had me do the 135.293 for SIC at Simuflite only. I now have been hired elsewhere as a Captain. Can the 299/297 ride be done inhouse (or with the feds) or do I need to go back to Simuflite for the initial 299/297?

You can do the check in house as long as the company has an authorized check airman. Credit may be given for previous experience - ref 8400.10 paragraph 291, 371 & 471 (according to our Training Program). It is also at the POI's discretion so it has to be coordinated with them. Simuflite (or any other qualified Part 142 training facility) would also be albe to do the checks if they are listed as an Outsourced Training vendor in Op Spec A031 (which requires audits of their facility/program).

 

[mike1mc]

Also keep in mind that the 299 HAS to be done in-house as it can not be completed in the simulator and is company specific. You can still try to get approval for a 299 completed with another company but a lot of FSDOs don't allow it.

 

[cvsfly]

Also keep in mind that the 299 HAS to be done in-house as it can not be completed in the simulator and is company specific. You can still try to get approval for a 299 completed with another company but a lot of FSDOs don't allow it.

Correct - Part 142 facilities can't do line checks or part of the .293 test that is company specific info (Ops manual, etc). I miss read the question.

 

[avbug]

Part 142 can do company specific training, initial or otherwise. So long as the operator has approval for it and the Part 142 training center is listed with the operator, the operator may have part, or all of the training done there (excepting certain line checks, and most of these can be done in the sim, too).

Part 142 centers will accept the operating and training documents from each operator to tailor the training and checkride to the specific operators requrements. I've done it, and it's done all the time. The limitations aren't the training center, but the operator and what each operator is approved to do or not do.

 

[cvsfly]

Part 142 can do company specific training, initial or otherwise. So long as the operator has approval for it and the Part 142 training center is listed with the operator, the operator may have part, or all of the training done there (excepting certain line checks, and most of these can be done in the sim, too).

Part 142 centers will accept the operating and training documents from each operator to tailor the training and checkride to the specific operators requrements. I've done it, and it's done all the time. The limitations aren't the training center, but the operator and what each operator is approved to do or not do.

What needs to be done to get this approval? Our FSDO allows FSI to do only our 135.293 (a) 2-3 checks. and that reflects a change in the last couple of years. They used to be able to cover (a) 2-7 as had been previously signed off. In re-reading our training manual (which was provided by FSI for our company) under Sources of Training/Training Responsibilities it lists our company's and FSI testing and training responsibilities under various topics (135.293 a, b, .297, .299, .329, .331, .345, etc) that corresponds to this. So we come back and do our 135.293 (a) 1, & 4-8 & 135.299 checks with the Feds.

 

[cvsfly]

Part 142 can do company specific training, initial or otherwise. So long as the operator has approval for it and the Part 142 training center is listed with the operator, the operator may have part, or all of the training done there (excepting certain line checks, and most of these can be done in the sim, too).

Part 142 centers will accept the operating and training documents from each operator to tailor the training and checkride to the specific operators requrements. I've done it, and it's done all the time. The limitations aren't the training center, but the operator and what each operator is approved to do or not do.

What needs to be done to get this approval? Our FSDO allows FSI to do only our 135.293 (a) 2-3 checks. and that reflects a change in the last couple of years. They used to be able to cover (a) 2-7 as had been previously signed off. In re-reading our training manual (which was provided by FSI for our company and then copied/rewritten, submitted and approved by the FSDO as acomplete stand alone program) under Sources of Training/Training Responsibilities it lists our company's and FSI testing and training responsibilities under various topics (135.293 a, b, .297, .299, .329, .331, .345, etc) that corresponds to this. So we come back and do our 135.293 (a) 1, & 4-8 & 135.299 checks with the Feds.

 

[avbug]

In a nutshell, (where am I, and how did I get into this bloody great shell?) one need only include it in the training program. So long as it's in the training program and is included in your GOM and and operations specifications as an approved part of your training as a provider, you can use them. I've done my checks at both FSI and Simuflite.

I just went back through Simuflite a few weeks ago, and out of our class of 8, three were FAA, one was special operations, one was auditing the class, and four were different 135 operators. Each 135 was doing a company-specific program to include all their checks, which could be done in the sim. Each had to accomplish their company-specific checks, which they did. Their ops manual was on file with Simuflite, and the instructors and examiners acted strictly in accordance with the syllabus prepared for each individual student per their company needs.

Have you asked your POI about adding a training provider and obtaining the necessary approal?

 

[cvsfly]

Well our FSDO is pathetic. We do have FSI a the training provider lissted in A031. When we went from single pilot-in-command to a basic we submitted the training program manual that was provided for us from FSI. Our FSDO rejected it. They gave us a Word file template for the training manual and said to use this. So I jumped through their hoops, cut and pasted the appropriate material from FSI (no propietary info - original was designed specifically for us) program with their blessing and incorporated it into a contract training section. A few more hoops with some expresed agravation and questions like - " you need a flight maneuver approach profile for a 50% loss of power on one side." I asked what this was. We are 2 engine turbo-prop. Was this in addition to the single-engine approach already in there? Did finally find the reference for it in the 8400.10 in the Multi-engine General Purpose family (which I think this manuever profile was meant for 3 or more engine aircraft). When I started to argue the point my POI said I was being "difficult and that she didn't have to approve the basic certificate". So to keep things rolling I went ahead and threw it in there. So............ back to subject. FSI has our FAA approved training program which is the same program they designed for us with some minor changes. (Our POI also didn't like the FSI graphic profile for the BE-200 referencing V1 in the Part 23 aircraft. I had to white-out that and replace it with Vr.). We happen to have a new POI who I haven't met yet. Should I try to rewrite those sections and submit it to see if it flies? Do I have to come up with any additional documentation that shows that FSI is equipped and qualified to provide that testing level (the training section already allows it)?