250 below 10,000

[penguin22]

ok so who's got the final answer on this?

at LAX departing westbound, ATC frequently gives us an assigned airspeed >250 kts while still below 10,000. Yesterday I got 280 kts while still climbing through 6000.

Can we assume ATC is giving a waiver of 91.117(a) ?

would love to hear from LAX ATC on this. Are you guys expecting us to fly 280 when given the clearance, or just once we're out of 10?

 

[Vector4fun]

ok so who's got the final answer on this?

I have an educated answer

Can we assume ATC is giving a waiver of 91.117(a) ?

No, ATC does not have that authority.

would love to hear from LAX ATC on this. Are you guys expecting us to fly 280 when given the clearance, or just once we're out of 10?

I'm not LAX, but I are ATC. You can exceed 250 when more than (I believe) 12 miles off-shore, or above 10K. I often give speed adjustments like "Do not exceed 270 kts" to aircraft leaving 6000', but I fully expect you to maintain <250 kts below 10K. Even if I say "Best forward speed"

Not that I have a digital data link that tells me exactly what your indicated speed is; and not all ATCers are educated or care about the finer points of the FARs.

 

[Alex429595]

FWIW (coming from a green warrior flying college kid), I have heard that ATC can't simply waive the 250 rule. Sure they probably =want= you to fly faster, and I wouldn't think they would bust you if you followed them, but techinally I don't think its legal. Seems to be just one of those things. Im sure somebody who actually knows what they are talking about will chime in. This is just my educated guess/observation.

 

[flyburg]

Or,..... could it possibly be that the 250kts below 10000 AMSL
rule is not theoretically required to IFR traffic in class A, B, and C airspace

???

 

[Brett Hull]

There was a big brouhaha on this on the FAR's section. Couldn't have been more than a few weeks ago. A quick search there will give you all the reading on 250 below 10K that you can handle.

But I agree with V4F, + 12 miles off the coast, let'er rip.

 

[penguin22]

I have an educated answer




No, ATC does not have that authority.



I'm not LAX, but I are ATC. You can exceed 250 when more than (I believe) 12 miles off-shore, or above 10K. I often give speed adjustments like "Do not exceed 270 kts" to aircraft leaving 6000', but I fully expect you to maintain <250 kts below 10K. Even if I say "Best forward speed"

Not that I have a digital data link that tells me exactly what your indicated speed is; and not all ATCers are educated or care about the finer points of the FARs.

thanks for your answer; thats kinda what I thought. In my case we're never >12 miles from shore; these are eastbound flights.

the part that makes me uncomfortable is the clearance. Its not a "280 when able, or do not exceed 280", its a simple speed assignment of 280 knots. We're usually out of 10 within two minutes anyway, I just wait till then b4 accelerating.

 

[penguin22]

There was a big brouhaha on this on the FAR's section. Couldn't have been more than a few weeks ago. A quick search there will give you all the reading on 250 below 10K that you can handle.

But I agree with V4F, + 12 miles off the coast, let'er rip.

I searched, only found the thread on slowing at 10 on descent

 

[penguin22]

I searched, only found the thread on slowing at 10 on descent

ok, now I found it. thanks

 

[flyburg]

Oops, disregard earlier post. Just read FAR 91.117, guess the old country is different.

 

[coloneldan]

At one time Houston Approach could tell people to let her cook to 300 knots from the surface up. You were still restricted to 250 unless faster was given to you. It was an expermintal program and I'm not sure if they still are testing it, but LAX could be doing the same thing.