2 Skywest Q's:

[Flying Illini]

First: Is it true that there is no union?

Second: What does growth (Upgrade times? New deliveries?) look like?

 

[Tooslow]

There is no union, that is why they fly 70 seaters for 50 seat rates. Growth depends upon if United makes it!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Your profile tells me you were downgraded from CA to FO. Try doing the math and figuring out if you would have been better off working for good old non-union SKYW and staying in the left seat.

Voting that TA in turned out to be a huge mistake but SkyWest pilots don't have a monopoly on dumb ideas. Ask anyone furloughed from Eagle or XJet what they think about that great flow-through program.

Do you really think unions protect pilot groups from making bad decisions? If so I think I hear a phone ringing. It's someone from dispatch saying you need to go take a drug test.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Oh boy. This should get good.

 

[tranceport]

First: Is it true that there is no union?

Second: What does growth (Upgrade times? New deliveries?) look like?

1) Yes. stranger things have happened in aviation. Now that you know, will you change your mind or behave differently?

2) Growth looks like what they post for the whole world to see on their website. go to www.skywest.com and look under deliveries in the careers section. After that last officially posted delivery, there are no firm orders. Based a little over a thousand pilots, I'm assuming you can do the math. It's up to you after that point whether you want to believe rumors and message board gurus.

 

[nimtz]

Voting that TA in turned out to be a huge mistake but SkyWest pilotsdon't have a monopoly on dumb ideas. Ask anyone furloughed from Eagleor XJet what they think about that great flow-through program.

Actually alot of furloughed Xjet pilots got hired at Skywest because ofALPA and now are captains there unlike me at Xjet. They betterthank a higher power that ALPA was around to get them their jobs.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Actually alot of furloughed Xjet pilots got hired at Skywest because ofALPA and now are captains there unlike me at Xjet. They betterthank a higher power that ALPA was around to get them their jobs.

Should they thank ALPA for helping them lose their jobs in the first place?

Do you think flow-through agreements are a smart thing for regional pilots or are they a euphemism for mainline furlough protection?

Please don't confuse flow-through with mainline partners to "Jets for Jobs" programs. 2 different animals.

Also consider this. ALPA put together Jets for Jobs at wholly owned Airways subsidiaries. These "agreements" violated seniority by guaranteeing left seats to furloughed mainline pilots which limited growth for the regional pilots. When US Air came to SkyWest with the same kind of program SkyWest management let the pilot group decide whether or not it was a good idea. It was voted down by a large margin.

When UAL came to SkyWest for a Jets for Jobs program SKYW set what I consider a benchmark for the industry. Furloughed UAL pilots came in at the bottom of the seniority list with no special treatment or guranteed seats. They hold whatever their seniority can offer.

Name one carrier that did an equal or better job than SkyWest with Jets for Jobs.

 

[tranceport]

"benchmark for the industry?" are you saying that Skywest was at the forefront of this mind numbing 'deal'? REally? No other company had never done this?

What difference does any of this make?

Can you change any of these agreements, violations, side deals, and whatever else, right?

it's like crying over spilled milk. look, it's not a slow news day, there are plenty of companies hiring.

 

[nimtz]

Name one carrier that did an equal or better job than SkyWest with Jets for Jobs.

I don't really give a cr@p to be honest. Anybody hired at XJethadtoknow the risk of the thing turning south. Of course nobody forsaw9/11 and the massive furloughs that it brought about. Before9/11justabout everyone at Xjet was cool with the FTA and most CAL pilotshadbarely heard of it. For the record the FTA was negotiated byIACP not ALPA. In fact there has never been a FTA negotiatedbetween two ALPA carriers as American is APA.

Jets for Jobs only came about as a byproduct of our careersgettingtrashed by the 70 seaters. Hope you guys aim to right theshipintheyears ahead, but leaping with joy for the flat jet pay rate settheworst precedent possible. BTW, isn't 18 months just about up by now?

 

[Russ]

It is and SAPA is very quiet. I usually tend to blurt out the potential of good news and tend to sit on the bad. I wonder if SAPA works the same way?

 

[Morning Wood]

I don't really give a cr@p to be honest. Anybody hired at XJet hadtoknow the risk of the thing turning south. Of course nobody for saw9/11 and the massive furloughs that it brought about. Before9/11 justabout everyone at Xjet was cool with the FTA and most CAL pilots hadbarely heard of it.

Jets for Jobs only came about as a byproduct of our careers gettingtrashed by the 70 seaters. Hope you guys aim to right theship intheyears ahead, but leaping with joy for the flat jet pay rate set theworst precedent possible. BTW, isn't 18 months just about up by now?[/QUOTE

Flat jet rates? What is pay for pilots flying the A319/A320? Is the
pay less when they fly the A319? Do the NW guys get paid at
a different rate in the DC9-30 series than they do when they fly
the -50? Seems to me, if you want to call a spade a spade, then
ALPA should have gone to each carrier and regotiated less pay
for the smaller airplanes before they showed up on the property.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

Actually alot of furloughed Xjet pilots got hired atSkywest because ofALPA and now are captains there unlike me at Xjet.They betterthank a higher power that ALPA was around to get them theirjobs.

Most of those guys returned to XJT. I know in one case that 9/9 guys chose to return to XJT and ALPA.

 

[Bako Cap]

Good for them. I wish them the best. Thanks for leaving. bye.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Flat jet rates? What is pay for pilots flying the A319/A320? Is the
pay less when they fly the A319? Do the NW guys get paid at
a different rate in the DC9-30 series than they do when they fly
the -50? Seems to me, if you want to call a spade a spade, then
ALPA should have gone to each carrier and regotiated less pay
for the smaller airplanes before they showed up on the property.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Keep on dispatchin' there buddy. Please. For the good of the profession.

 

[FreightNazi]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Keep on dispatchin' there buddy. Please. For the good of the profession.

What's so stupid about it?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Because, you have 70 and 90 seat airplanes which are being flown at mainline companies, and which are being flown at regional companies. When the regionals start OKing 50-seat wages for these planes, then you will have the majors pushing for those rates at their companies as well. The race to the bottom continues.

The 70 and 90 seat aircraft set a new precident. To say they are the same is ridiculous. The EMB 170 and 190 is a totally different airplane than the EMB 145. It's just that Bombardier built the aircraft so similar.

 

[FreightNazi]

Because, you have 70 and 90 seat airplanes which are being flown at mainline companies, and which are being flown at regional companies. When the regionals start OKing 50-seat wages for these planes, then you will have the majors pushing for those rates at their companies as well. The race to the bottom continues.

The 70 and 90 seat aircraft set a new precident. To say they are the same is ridiculous. The EMB 170 and 190 is a totally different airplane than the EMB 145. It's just that Bombardier built the aircraft so similar.

I see your point. We also have one pay scale for each seat, same pay for a 727 crewmember and a 747 crewmember. The policy has it's pros and cons. I personally like it as I like flying the 727 domestically and don't want to have to bid something international like the whale to chase more money, plus the company likes it as it holds down the number to training events as crewmembers tend to find a fleet that suits them and stay there.

 

[strega7]

Exactly! Heaven forbid someone should do it differently than the almightly ALPA. I would love that pay scale system at a regional. Who will do it first?

 

[nimtz]

I see your point. We also have one pay scale foreachseat, same pay for a 727 crewmember and a 747 crewmember. Thepolicy hasit's pros and cons. I personally like it as I like flyingthe 727domestically and don't want to have to bid somethinginternational likethe whale to chase more money, plus the companylikes it as it holdsdown the number to training events as crewmemberstend to find a fleetthat suits them and stay there.

Well a UPS guy doesn't have to worry about paying the bills quiteasmuch as a regional guy does. In our neck of the woods every lastdimecounts especially when a faimly life gets involved. Would theaverage UPS guy be happy making under 70 bucks/hour?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Should they thank ALPA for helping them lose their jobs in the first place?

No, they shouldn't. The IACP (in-house CAL/CALEX union) negotiated the first FTA...and actually, it was called "The Continental Airlines Employment Opportunities and Furlough Protection" LOA. Had 9/11 never happened, we would never have experienced the "furlough protection" part of that provision and many would have looked at that LOA as a model for the industry. Go figure.

-Neal

 

[FlyChicaga]

I would love a single, longevity based pay scale as well. But when your pay is this low, you look for anything you can get. When you have someone say, "hey an RJ is an RJ, I don't mind making $50 an hour as captain on a 70-seater!" it's disheartening.

 

[yellowfever]

I agree with flychicaga, flying the 70 seater for so low of a rate is wrong. SkyWest is the only regional with a 50/70 seat equal pay...it sucks!!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I would love a single, longevity based pay scale as well. But when your pay is this low, you look for anything you can get. When you have someone say, "hey an RJ is an RJ, I don't mind making $50 an hour as captain on a 70-seater!" it's disheartening.

According to airlinepilotpay.com nobody is flying left seat at SkyWest for $50 hours unless they are in a 30 seat turboprop.

Years of service RJ CA EMB CA RJ FO EMB FO
18$93$68$40$31
17$91$68$40$31
16$88$67$40$31
15$86$66$40$31
14$83$65$40$31
13$81$63$40$31
12$78$61$40$31
11$76$59$40$31
10$74$57$40$31
9$71$56$40$31
8$69$54$40$31
7$67$52$40$31
6$65$51$39$31
5$63$50$38$30
4$61$48$37$29
3$60$47$36$28
2$58$46$35$27
1$56$44$19$19

 

[Flying Illini]

I agree with flychicaga, flying the 70 seater for so low of a rate is wrong. SkyWest is the only regional with a 50/70 seat equal pay...it sucks!!!

Forgive my ignorance; does SKYW's pilot group (since no union) have a time frame for when the current pay rates expire or can be voted on again? At the next vote (if there is such a thing) what are the chances of the current pilot group changing the 50/70 pay?
Looking on airlinepilotpay.com it seems there are several airlines with same pay for certain aircraft.

The second sentence in the quote above is wrong. Chautauqua's FO pay is for JET FO which includes 50 and 70 seat aircraft. The captain pay is different between the fleets, but FO is the same. ASA's FO pay is the same if you are on the ATR or the CRJ200. I didn't look through the rest but how can you make the above statement when it is clearly incorrect?

 

[yellowfever]

Sorry, I meant the left seat. At least the regionals I've found info. about have a seperate scale. Furthermore...skywests payrate stretch to 99 seats. Obviously they don't have any, but that's what is on paper!

 

[FlyChicaga]

According to airlinepilotpay.com nobody is flying left seat at SkyWest for $50 hours unless they are in a 30 seat turboprop.

Where did I say that was the case at SkyWest? I just said you have people--new pilots--who don't seem to care if they get paid the same low rate for a 50-seat or 70-seat airplane as Captain.

It's bad enough that we, regional pilots, don't have much negotiating power anymore to get 50-seat rates where they should be. Then, the 70-seater comes along, which gives an opportunity to fight for a higher wage. But that gets thwarted when companies like SkyWest put out a 50-99 seat rate. Why should CHQ, XJET, CMR, ASA or anyone have a separate scale when this huge, successful regional SkyWest over there doesn't have one?

Face the facts: This SkyWest Jet CA payscale is just one of the many setbacks in the forward movement of regional pay. We are trying to raise the bar, but each time a step forward is made to enhance the quality of our profession for all regional pilots, someone makes a decision to take two steps back to thwart the competition.

Don't lie. You know a separate pay scale would be nothing but positive for the entire SkyWest pilot group. But you are sacrificing a step forward so that you can fight off the regional competition. This in turn rolls downhill to every other regional who is trying to take steps forward.

 

[Flying Illini]

Devil's advocate for a sec...

Ok, Skywest got the sh!t rolling downhill with the single captain pay rate but nobody can place blame on them for dragging down the industry (they aren't helping it but they aren't soley responsible for it's demise). If they got it rolling, who is going to step up to the plate and put a stop to it? If you don't like it, do something about it rather than just complain and bicker on flightinfo. Otherwise, go find another job somewhere else that pays you what you deserve.

And now me for a sec...

Why is it NOT OK if the captain rates for a 70 seater and 50 seater are the same but it IS OK if the FO rates for said aircraft are the same?

Shouldn't the captain and fo rates for a 70 seater be higher than the same rates for a 50 seater?

 

[Morning Wood]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Keep on dispatchin' there buddy. Please. For the good of the profession.

Thanks...I will.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Just wondering why its OK for the majors to have the same payscale for 757/767, but the cjr200/700 rates need to be different. Isn't the 70 seater easier to fly? I mean it has FADEC, leading edge slats, TWO flight attendants, its not a dog in the climb like the -200, what more could you want.

Just curious!

 

[propsarebest]

GROWTH???


I heard from a F/O that I was jumping with the other day that we are getting 20 ex Indy planes and putting them to work for NWA at IND.