135 Startup

[check six]

I'm looking to gradually work my way into owning a 135 operation.

Right now I have corporate management job. Also have an ATP with Lear time.

I had a Airline Captain type tell me that the only way to make the thing work was to own the airplane outright. That way, you can ride out the bad times and make good cash in the good times.

My plan is to buy a Lear, lease it out to a current 135 until it gets paid off. Then bag the corporate job and start up the 135.

Can a guy make any money in the 135 business?

 

[Cmdr Taggart]

Everything I have heared abou 135 ownership is not good. I looked into it at one time with a good friend who has a 135 certificate and had a contract with the Navy to fly personel 4 times a month. We were looking into get a 421C to start off. I did the math with my accountant and mechanic and there was no way it would work out. The airplane would have to fly all the time. And if it was down for maintance we wold have to charter another 421 to fullfill the nany contract or lose it. There were too many variables and too much personel risk.

Something that may work is a fractional and you as the manger/chief pilot of the fractional. Say you find a lear you want to buy, find 5 other people that want to be fractional owners of the lear, they all split the accustion cost and then as manager/pilot you charge them managment fees and pilot fees. This way you have no capitail invested your self. I know of a guy that does this in CA and had 8 airplanes he manages and he is taking home 15k a month in fees and he flys the choice trips he wants.

Still the idea of owning an airplane and running a 135 charter would be nice. Good luck.

 

[kevin147]

check six,
I own my own part 135, email me if you get a chance, I'd like to talk to you.

Kevin

 

[Badger]

135 profitability.

Our 135 fleet is all turbine, I'll quote the boss directly. "You cannot own and fly turbine equipment on a 135 certificate and make money". You must leaseback the aircraft from someone that needs a huge tax writeoff to make it work.

It doesn't take much to eat up any profits when you're looking at a tcas repair of 40K and a mandatory installation of ground-prox in the king-air (thousands). Not to mention the insurance requirements, probably at least 4x what you'd pay as an individual owner IF you can get it. Some passengers need a minimum liability coverage for you to haul them as well. It's a bottomless pit.

Maybe it would work better in a Baron or Navajo but you'll need a couple bread and butter contracts or customers.

Good luck.

 

[check six]

Badger,

Thanks for the straight talk. After owning one light twin, I can see how repairs can really bite. So how was it again that old Herb Kelleher started up Southwest? I know, they leased one 737, hired a couple pilots and a few F/A's in hotpants.

Check Six

 

[Rick1128]

leasing

I have to disagree about leasing. It is one of the quickest ways to go out of business there is. If you lease from a straight leasing company, all you are doing is paying for their aircraft. You will still be responsible for most repairs on the aircraft. The lessor is generally responsible for the heavy inspections and overhauls, the lessee is responsible for everything else. And in reality, the lessee also pays for the heavy inspections and overhauls as part of his lease payments.

If you can get an aircraft owner to lease back and aircraft to you, you are better off. But there are issues there also. Like conflicts over aircraft usage, etc.

If there aircraft is busy, you are much better off owning, especially if you can purchase the aircraft at the right price. Which means older aircraft and so on.

Over the years I have worked for operators that have owned their own aircraft, leased from leasing companies and leased from private owners. The most stable operators own their own aircraft.

For a Part 135 operator, no matter who owns the aircraft, you have to watch the pennies very closely. A nich market is a good way to go.

 

[pwhipped]

Just remember, to Make 1 million in aviation, you need to start with 2 million. I dont' care if it is 135, 121, 125.

hey, if I had two cents, I'd offer it.

 

[mike1mc]

Check the NBAA website. The 135 Operations Committee can be a tremendous help and they offer a Booklet with CD-ROM on how to start-up a 135 operation.

http://web.nbaa.org/public/about/committees/part135/

 

[WhiteCloud]

Can a guy make any money in the 135 business?

In my little world the 135 operators that seem to be around the longest are using 135 to subsidize their ownership of the airplane or for some tax reason rather than as a sole source of income.