135 duty/rest periods

[coginthewheel]

ok.. so let's say that you are working for a non-scheduled 135 cargo company and you exceed 14 hrs of duty time, but do not exceed 8 hrs of flight time in a 24 hour period.... how long must you rest before dutying on again? 135.267 doesn't seem to address this situation...

 

[falcon20driver]

Just be glad if you get rest. I've recently found out some ondemand operators don't even give you rest, after blocking in from a 5 hour trip on a hot saturday afternoon in El Paso and they don't have anything else for you at the moment, this is what they say, "if we get a trip than you're not on rest, if we don't get a trip than consider yourself on rest", so you NEVER get a chance to be more than 25 minutes from the airport and you never get a chance to enjoy a cold one because "WE MIGHT GET A TRIP", sweet.


The correct and LEGAL way this should go is "We will either begin your rest period now and your minimum of 10 hours of rest starts, or the only other LEGAL way of handling it is, we will keep you on duty for (X) number of hours and if we don't get a trip by (X) hour your minimum of 10 hours of rest will begin at that time."

 

[Whiskey Tango]

9 hours unless you go up to 16 hours. The min is 8 yours but you will need comp rest if you get less than 9

 

[soarby007]

You have to have 10 hours of rest during the 24hours preceeding your flight. para (d)&(b) Can't begin a new flight unless you had 10 hours of rest in the previous 24 hours. So the answer is 10 hours. If you exceed the 14 hours you are supposed to report it to the FAA and why.They might accept a few lame reasons, such as weather, delays in vectors, etc., but not because it was "close enough".

 

[WMUSIGPI]

9 hours unless you go up to 16 hours. The min is 8 yours but you will need comp rest if you get less than 9

that is for part 121 NOT 135

 

[EatSleepFly]

ok.. so let's say that you are working for a non-scheduled 135 cargo company and you exceed 14 hrs of duty time, but do not exceed 8 hrs of flight time in a 24 hour period.... how long must you rest before dutying on again? 135.267 doesn't seem to address this situation...

However long the company feels like letting you rest?

It isn't clearly addressed, but hopefully it will be when (if?) the 135 re-write takes place.

The way I understand it, is this. Companies either have to operate under 135.267(c), or 135.267(b) and (d).

Most on-demand freight would operate under 135.267(b) and (d), because there are no "regularly assigned duty periods," which is what (c) talks about.

That means, 8 hrs. of commercial flying for single-pilot ops, 10 hrs. for two pilots. At my company, "Commercial flying," is considered the positioning leg to pick up the freight, and any live legs (freight on board). The empty reposition home does not count towards the 8-hr a day limit, but DOES count towards the monthly/quarterly/yearly limits (not sure I understand that, however).

So anyways, that's the (b) part of it. The (d) part says that from the planned completion time of the assignment (which at my company is the time you dropped your last freight, which makes sense, I guess), you have to be able to look back 24 hours and have 10 consecutive hours of rest in there. So, obviously 24-10 = 14. That's where everybody gets the 14-hour hard duty day idea. In reality, you have 14 hours to get your freight where it needs to be. If your reposition home puts you over 14 hours, it doesn't matter, because your assignment was completed when you dropped freight.

So, to answer your question, finally: 10 hours.

I've done a decent bit of research on this, and that's what I've come up with. Kind of sucks sometimes. Hopefully that re-write that is supposedly looming will change things for the better, if it ever happens.

9 hours unless you go up to 16 hours. The min is 8 yours but you will need comp rest if you get less than 9

Huh?

 

[CFIse]

ok.. so let's say that you are working for a non-scheduled 135 cargo company and you exceed 14 hrs of duty time, but do not exceed 8 hrs of flight time in a 24 hour period.... how long must you rest before dutying on again? 135.267 doesn't seem to address this situation...

The assumption is you accepted a flight assignment where you would have had the legal amount of rest prior to the scheduled end of the assignment but for reasons beyond your control exceeded that time? The 14 hour duty day doesn't exist, it's just a convenient way of thinking about the time. But the requirment is that prior to accepting a flight assignment you must be able to look back 24 hours from the scheduled end of that assignment and find 10 hours of rest.

So for your example you need 10 hours of rest before accepting another flight assignment. It's not like scheduled ops. where you can change the rest requirements based on how much rest you had in lookback before. In unscheduled ops you always need to be able to lookback and find 10 hours of rest.

 

[avbug]

I've recently found out some ondemand operators don't even give you rest...

You just recently found this out? Welcome to reality...the way it's been for many decades.

CFIse is correct regarding rest; you must be able to look back and find ten hours rest. However, Part 135 does prescribe a 14 hour duty period, as identified in 14 CFR 135.267(c).

You may exceed your flight time when unforecast conditions occur, such as weather enroute. Additional rest requirments apply. No such provisions are addressed in the regulation for exceeding duty limitations.

135.267 prescribes regulation for two different circumstances. If you're under a regular duty schedule day to day, which you know in advance, and which does not vary, you must stick to ten hours flying (eight for a single pilot crew) in a 24 hour period...but may have ten hours again after ten hours rest, during your next scheduled duty period. For example, if you go on duty at noon and immediately fly ten hours, you end your duty at 0200 the following day. You may go on duty again at noon again, and fly ten hours again, starting at noon.

If you don't have a set duty schedule, this isn't possible. You must, at any time, be able to look back and see no more than ten hours of flying in the previous twenty four. This is called the sliding 24 hour ruler. You must also be able to look back and find ten hours of consecutive rest in the previous twenty four hours. In this case, you can't abide the flight schedule that's prescribed for a crew with a set duty period. If you flew the schedule identified in the previous paragraph, and didn't have a set duty schedule, on day two you'd have to shut down by one o-clock (1300) in the afternoon...as you'd have ten hours flying in the previous twenty four.

The determining factor there is weather you have a regularly assigned duty schedule, or not.

In either case, you must have ten hours of rest preceeding your duty assignment, and you are not authorized to exceed duty time. Flight time, yes. Duty time, no. Except...

135.267(c) prescribes the regularly assigned duty period, while the rolling twenty four hour limitations apply to other than a regularly assigned duty period, and are encompassed by 135.267(b)&(d).

135.267(c) addresses duty time, and provides for allowances to flight time overages, but does not specifically authorize exceeding duty time. Neither does 135.267(d). HOWEVER...

December 6, 1990
Mr. Robert B. Thomas

Dear Mr. Thomas:

Thank you for your letter of February 13, 1990, to Mr. Tony James, an inspector at the Rochester Flight Standards District Office, requesting an interpretation of Section 135.267(d) of the Federal Aviation Regulations. Your letter was forwarded to us for response by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) officials in your region. We apologize for the delay in responding to you.

Question
In your letter, you state as follows:
While it is clear that all scheduling must include a 10-hour rest period during the 24-hour period preceding the planned completion time of the assignment, what is not clear is what happens when things don't go as planned.

The difficulty comes when a crew commences a flight assignment following a required rest period that for one reason or another does not get completed in the planned time. For example, the crew reports at 0800 following a 10-hour rest period, and is scheduled to complete the assignment (which does not include another rest period) at 2000. However, due to circumstances beyond the control of the crew or the operator (maintenance, weather, passengers, AROs, ATC), at the time of departure they will not complete their assignment before 2200.

You then ask if the crew in such a situation may depart.

Answer
Paragraph (d) of Section 135.267 provides as follows:
"Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment."

Section 135.267(d) does not contain an explicit limitation on duty time. This regulation provides limits on flight time rather than duty time. Thus, paragraph (d) of Section 135.267 cannot be construed as a hard and fast rule that 14 hours of duty time must never, under any circumstances, be exceeded.

The key to the applicability of Section 135.267(d) is in the final phrase "planned completion time of the assignment" (emphasis added). If the original planning is upset for reasons beyond the control of the crew and operator, the flight may nevertheless be conducted, even though crew duty time may extend beyond 14 hours. This assumes, of course, that the original planning was realistic.

As to what circumstances are beyond the control of the operator and crew, the FAA has taken the position that delays caused by late passenger arrivals, maintenance difficulties, and adverse weather may legally extend the flight beyond 14 hours of crew duty time.

Under the facts described in your letter, the crew's departure would not violate Section 135.267(d) because: (1) the planned assignment did in fact include the 10 hours of required rest and (2) the delay in completion of the assignment was due to circumstances beyond the control of the operator and crew.

We would like to point out, however, that a flightcrew may not depart if the crewmembers' lack of rest would endanger others. Section 91.13(a) (designated Section 91.9 prior to the Part 91 revision which took effect on August 18, 1990) provides as follows: "No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another." Both the crew and the certificate holder would be in violation of Section 91.13(a) if crewmembers fly when their lack of rest would endanger others. Furthermore, the flightcrew need not actually endanger others for a violation of Section 91.13(a) to occur - a violation exists if the crew's fatigue subjects life and property to potential endangerment.

This interpretation has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters. We hope that it satisfactorily answers your inquiry.
Sincerely,

/s/
Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yea, sorry I missed that non-scheduled part