135 Certificate

[CFIIer]

I know that trying to get your own 135 certification is quite a pain in the a$$. What i'm wondering is what the pro's/con's of using someone elses certificate are? If a person was going to try to do some charter work with his own plane, is it more beneficial to work under someone else's certificate?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ackattacker]

Be aware that the FAA has been cracking down lately on "using someone else's certificate". I don't know exactly what you had in mind, but in order to legally do that you need to basically cede total control of the aircraft and crewing to them.

 

[indefinitehold]

Using some one else, to what degree?

 

[CFIIer]

a company advertises that they, for a management fee, will provide maintenance, as well as provide customers as they become available, and even crew and training to the crews. I'm wondering if that now means that the company has total control over my aircraft, and flies it with the pilots they want, or am I still control of how my aircraft is used.
The idea was that I was trying to start a charter company, but run it under someone else's certificate. has anyone ever done this, or is this just a bad idea?

thanks

 

[indefinitehold]

To answer your question of are they in control, yes they are. however as a lease backer, the owner has final authority of the aircraft, as well as any 91 type operations and any additional conditions in your lease back agreement. you can make arrangements with them to take your existing pilots. they will have to under go the other companies INDOC and flight training. Providing they meet whatever FAR and or Insurance requirements. The liability and head aches are off of you. Now, if you wish to start your own 135. may I suggest, if this is a single aircraft. Elect a single pilot 135 (opspec A040) while operating the single pilot 135 (which requires no manuals, and other such related time consuming things, Inspectors may demand certain things) you can work towards a normal 135 at your own pace. There are limitations as a single pilot 135. You loose the ability of lower than standard T/O mins. (1 Mile will be required) Auto pilot will not be MEL-able.

This is not a bad idea. also be advised that you will be required to go thru the other certificate holders insurance company. they will most likely have higher insurance rates for higher liability and hull coverage. this may play a factor for you. now you can go the single pilot route, and pay your own lower rates, but for brokering out, they are insurance mins. that brokers insist on before they do buisness with you.

Hope this helps

 

[cvsfly]

a company advertises that they, for a management fee, will provide maintenance, as well as provide customers as they become available, and even crew and training to the crews. I'm wondering if that now means that the company has total control over my aircraft, and flies it with the pilots they want, or am I still control of how my aircraft is used.
The idea was that I was trying to start a charter company, but run it under someone else's certificate. has anyone ever done this, or is this just a bad idea?

thanks

In addition to the answer from indefinitehold, see proposed revision to Operations Specifications A008 on operational control. http://www.faa.gov/education_research/training/part135/ The language in there and discussions from our POI suggest that even owners that have their own aircraft on a 135 certificate will either have to operate their flights according to 135 rules or have some "instrument" (i.e. a document to dictate who has operational control) to tranfer operational control when the owner flies. In other words you will be wise to hire lawyer and tax planners to make sure your operation is set up right.

 

[Bally]

What type of airplane are you talking about?

 

[CFIIer]

a light piston twin of some sort.... C-330 or BE-58, something like that.

 

[Hung Start]

Dear Mr. Indefinite Hold:

I have to really disagree. If your aircraft is on xyz certificate,, the CERTIFICATE holder is responsible for the operation of the aircraft. That being said, sure the owner can fly his buddies, take a joyride, whatever. But,, as long as it is still listed as on xyz's certificate, xyz is responsible for all maintenance, operations, etc. If Joe/Blow owner flys past required inspections, xyz is still on the hook. If Joe/Blow flies pax on that questionable charter (my favorite cousins, twice removed that paid all expenses), xyz certificate might be in jeopardy. The Federalis have been burned a couple of time on this, I doubt they will be embarressed again.

Hung

 

[CaptainSpaz]

let's be clear

a company advertises that they, for a management fee, will provide maintenance, as well as provide customers as they become available, and even crew and training to the crews. I'm wondering if that now means that the company has total control over my aircraft, and flies it with the pilots they want, or am I still control of how my aircraft is used.
The idea was that I was trying to start a charter company, but run it under someone else's certificate. has anyone ever done this, or is this just a bad idea?

thanks

This thread has gone on way too long. Dude - you cannot excercise operational control over an airlane under 135 unless you are an officer on the 135 cetificate in question. End of subject.